Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple - Page 134 - Home Brew Forums

 Home Brew Forums > Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

06-07-2013, 12:50 PM   #1331
CSI
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by ShootsNRoots Question for CSI regarding their document entitled 'single decoction'. The math computing the xDecoctVol isn't correct or has a typo. My spreadsheet reads 27.32% as opposed to 27.92%. How are you getting 27.92%? Also, it's not indicated how to calculate the Simple Decoct Vol w/ no thermal loss.
Quick answer on thermal loss. In the formula nTempLossEstimate should be 0 if you are calculating for zero thermal loss. If creating the spreadsheet make sure you have a variable marked "Heat Loss Factor" as in our example and make sure and set it to 0, (only if you expect zero thermal loss...usually an unlikely scenario IMHO).

I'll look into the rest of the the questions later today to assist.

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06-07-2013, 02:18 PM   #1332
sfrisby

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You guys are taking all the fun out of this hobby. ; )

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06-07-2013, 09:45 PM   #1333
CSI
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by CSI Quick answer on thermal loss. In the formula nTempLossEstimate should be 0 if you are calculating for zero thermal loss. If creating the spreadsheet make sure you have a variable marked "Heat Loss Factor" as in our example and make sure and set it to 0. I'll look into the rest of the the questions later today to assist.
Shoots is right about the spreadsheet calc. It had a misplaced bracket that pushed the decoction volume off by 5 fluid ounces or in terms of actual affect on the decoction final temp about +0.31 deg F. Not a great concern but certainly worth the catch. The rest is standard spec (Palmer, Zainasheff, Siebel). I'll get the doc updated when I get some extra time next week. I love this board.

Now back to the fun stuff

06-13-2013, 10:37 PM   #1334
ShootsNRoots
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Apologies for taking the fun out. I should've just sent CSI a PM.

I will be brewing the Candi Syrup Westvleteren 12 recipe on Saturday. However, the recipe does not state when to add the Candi Syrup.

From reading this thread the Candi Syrup can be added at the beginning or the end of the boil with a change in flavor profile (probably caused by isomerization of hop oils if added at the beginning?).

What is the flavor profile when the Candi Syrup is added at the beginning of the boil (60 min)?
What is the flavor profile when the Candi Syrup is added at the end of the boil (flameout)?

06-13-2013, 10:50 PM   #1335
orangehero

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There is no good reason to add at the beginning of the boil for this recipe. It won't change the flavor profile just reduce the efficiency of hop acid isomerization so you'd have to add slightly more hops to get the same bitterness.

You could also add to the fermentor, but with the risk of contamination.

I haven't tried them all, but the difference in the three methods is probably very slight if you could even detect it at all (especially with aging). For me adding at 5-10 mins before flamout is the easiest way and helps preserve the aroma of syrup.

06-13-2013, 11:10 PM   #1336
sfrisby

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I have always added it at flameout.

06-15-2013, 11:47 PM   #1337
CSI
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by ShootsNRoots What is the flavor profile when the Candi Syrup is added at the beginning of the boil (60 min)? What is the flavor profile when the Candi Syrup is added at the end of the boil (flameout)?
Due to one of our customers in Iceland having syrup burn on direct contact with a heating element in the boil we have since recommended additions at flame-out. We ordinarily make our adjunct additions at t-10 min, (or flameout).

Flavor should not be dramatically affected by the timing of the addition.

06-16-2013, 01:34 AM   #1338
ShootsNRoots
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06/15/2013

Brewed CSI 017x today. Crush was set a little tight (scared) but didn't cause any problems. Hit 1.111 OG. Diluted to ~1.093+ (fermenter got too full). Followed decoction schedule; hit all temps. Need to pull thicker mash next time; preheated pot and cast decocted mash onto hot pot. Cooled to ~64F. O2 for 2 minutes. Pitched decanted, stirplate, WLP530 -> 2L -> 4L starter. Started bubbling within 4hrs. Will ramp temp 2 degrees every 24 hrs until 79F degrees. Then hold (or raise to ~82) till 1.013 and proceed with CSI instruction. (Freezer/Fermwrap temp control)

Color in fermenter is dark; no guess on SRM. Total of 9 gallons collected -> boiled down to ~5.5 gallons before dilution but there was a lot of trub; didn't want to use hop bags as wanted full hop utilization. May have caramelized sugar a tad due to long boil but really not worried about it.

Used Bru N' Water Black Balanced w/ Ward Labs report to adjust Mash and sparge water.

Used Wyeast Nutrient, DAP and Whirlfloc.

Added 2 pkgs - Candi Syrup D180 at flameout.

Went fairly smooth (phone call interruptions aside); makes for a long brew day.

Thanks to Saq, CSI and all who contributed to this thread.

Look forward to advancing this brew to the next stage.

(FYI, this was done in an apartment with an electric stove top. It worked very well. I've placed 1in. diameter x 1 1/2 in. length of copper pipe beneath the middle of the burners (under the cross sections) so they don't bend or flex down in the middle due to the aluminum decoction pots bottom "popping" down in the middle. As long as a pot is not "dragged" across the burners (thus bending the 3 cross section supports) they hold up very well.)

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06/23/2013

Fermentation went as expected. Set temp controller to 80F max / 64F min. Temp controller initially brought the temp down to 61F due to 2 degree differential; the fermentation heat brought it up to 80F in about 48 hours. Fermentation itself kept it there for the next couple days; the last couple days were helped by the fermwrap. Likes to get hotter than 80 during the first few days, but temp controller kept it in check.

Racked off yeast; F.G. was a weak 1.013 strong 1.012; crashing to 57F for 3 - 4 days per CSI instruction.

Smells wonderful. No off smells detected. Smells spicy and candy like.

Requires a *large* carboy with a blowoff tube. Used 6.5g glass carboy. Worked wonderfully.

Collected ~5.5 gallons of liquid.

Huge amount of trub and yeast in carboy. Approximately 4in. thick.

Color in carboy is dark, almost black; color in hydrometer tube was medium-dark brown.

Look forward to advancing this brew to the next stage.

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06/26/2013

F.G. 1.012; Racked off about an inch of trub and yeast in secondary to tertiary. Will hold at 45F for 8+ weeks before bottling.

Volume is at 5 gallons; perhaps a touch over; should be able to fill 48 12 oz. bottles at bottling time or perhaps I'll spring for heavier bottles.

Look forward to advancing this brew to the next stage.

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06-19-2013, 06:38 PM   #1339
shuckit

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by bottlebomber ^^^^^^ Whatever do you mean?
This wasn't directed at you. If you notice, there was a post deleted between mine and your's. It was a plug for a website selling westy XII for the "low cost of" ~\$40 a bottle.
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06-19-2013, 08:46 PM   #1340
beaksnbeer

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Guess I need to kill a keg, I'll have room to set this in my lagering fridge when Oktoberfest is kegged end of the month
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