Sweet Stout Deception Cream Stout

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

NCBeernut

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
290
Reaction score
30
Location
Raleigh
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
Wyeast 1450-PC - Denny\'s Favorite 50
Yeast Starter
Yes - 1 Liter
Batch Size (Gallons)
5
Original Gravity
1.058
Final Gravity
1.020
Boiling Time (Minutes)
60
IBU
27
Color
36
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
30 Days @ 67 F
Tasting Notes
Silky chocolate and coffee backed by smooth caramel.
I brewed this with extract, so the extract version is the real thing. The AG conversion should be dead on. Both are included. I used Wyeast 1450 PC - Denny's Favorite 50. This is a summer seasonal strain, originally the discontinued BrewTek CL-50, made famous by Denny Conn. Wyeast suggests 1056 as a good substitute, but I would use Wyeast 1028 or 1084. Mine finished out at 1.020 with Denny's - just a tad higher than it is supposed to.

Coffee and chocolate hit you up front intermingled with smooth caramel flavors that become noticeable mid-palate. Nice roasty finish rounds it out. Balanced and not cloying at all, but obviously leaning slightly to the sweeter side. Very smooth and creamy. You would think at least a little coffee or chocolate is actually used in this brew, and that is where it gets the name - Deception.

Brew it. Seriously. Do it. You will not be disappointed. It will be one of the best stouts you have had.


Extract:

4.50 lb Amber Dry Extract - 53.76 %
1.5 lb Wheat Dry Extract (60% Wheat) - 16.37 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L - 8.96 %
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) - 8.96 %
0.50 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) - 5.97 %
0.50 lb Lactose 5.97 % (Boil 10 min)

0.75 oz German Magnum [13.40 %] (60 min) - 27.0 IBU

1.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10 min)
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5 min)


All-Grain (assuming 75% efficiency):

6.5 or 7 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1.5 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM)
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt 60L
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Lactose (Boil 10 min)

0.75 oz German Magnum [13.40 %] (60 min) - 27.0 IBU

1.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10 min)
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5 min)

Mash 60 min @ 152

Ferment 1 month @ 67 degrees F
I carbonated 2 volumes, but I suppose you could go higher


Enjoy!
 
Brew it. Seriously. Do it. You will not be disappointed. It will be one of the best stouts you have had.

Listen to him! He let me try a couple bottles of this one and it is probably the best stout I've ever had! I'm usually not even a fan of milk stouts but this one was excellent. Like he said, it is not at all cloying, but incredibly rich, thick and delicious. When he poured me a glass I was blown away by the aroma. You could literally pull out rich dark caramel, creamy chocolate and smooth coffee aromas, each completely distinct but blended together perfectly. It is amazing.

The flavor takes what the aroma hints at, and makes it real. The caramel, chocolate and coffee overrun the tongue while the smooth velvety texture give it weight. It actually reminds me of what a cafe mocha milkshake drizzled with caramel sauce would taste like, but in a good way! I'd like to say this beer would be a perfect dessert but to be perfectly honest, I could drink it all day.

This is the only beer I've ever tried that makes me want to go back to extract brewing. The original recipe is so perfect I wouldn't want to upset the balance of anything by trying it all-grain. Having said that, I'm sure the all-grain recipe is fantastic. I'll probably do it all grain when I brew it - and I will brew it - soon! But there is the temptation there to replicate the original exactly.

Having said all that though, my recommendation is that if you're looking for a stout recipe, or even if you're not, brew this beer. You won't be disappointed.:mug:
 
This post is making me impatient - I'm waiting for a cream stout to finish up! When it's done (and if it's good!) I'll post the recipe. In the batch I'm waiting on, I used Munich malt as the base, used more lactose than in the recipe above, about 5 more ibu's, and intend to prime with the Kreamy-X product I read about here on HBT.

I am really looking forward to enjoying a cream stout as winter descends upon us!
 
I think 1028 will be great. This beer will definitely benefit from the good attenuation - Denny's yeast actually attenuates about the same.

I thought my beer finished high because Beersmith had lactose as being partially fermentable when it is not. I think if I would have used something like 1968, it might have been a little too sweet.


On another note, I drank a couple last night and the roastiness is coming out more. I'm really liking how it has developed.
 
Just brewed this today, Partial Mash .... 3lbs Marris Otter + 2.5lbs DME for the base malts and I used .85oz of whole leaf Galena at FWH and I used 1084 Irish Ale (Denny's Fav seems to be done for the year with the lager yeast at LHBS now) ... all other ingredients on the grain bill were exactly the same so this will be similar but different ... never brewed a stout but can't wait to get this one hooked up to a tap !!!
 
I think that Maris Otter will be a nice addition. The Irish Ale yeast should be a great choice since it has pretty full attenuation and works well with roasty wort - I didn't even think of using it before. Let me know how it turns out with that - I would like to add suggestions for alternative yeast strains to Denny's that have worked well with this, both for others and for myself. :mug:
 
I think that Maris Otter will be a nice addition. The Irish Ale yeast should be a great choice since it has pretty full attenuation and works well with roasty wort - I didn't even think of using it before. Let me know how it turns out with that - I would like to add suggestions for alternative yeast strains to Denny's that have worked well with this, both for others and for myself. :mug:

Well, I live up in Youngsville just north of Wake Forest, so when it's ready you can swing by and have a pint and judge for yourself !!:mug:
 
I might try this soon. Sounds easy enough for me to do.

Noob questions:
1. Stupid question, but in the extract recipe, would the Caramel/Crystal, Chocolate, and Roasted Barley be a 30 minute steep?

2. I recently did my first PM and liked the process (yet to see how the results turn out, though). If I wanted to do a PM, I would substitute the 4.50 lb Amber DME with a mash of 3lbs Marris Otter (or similar) and the Caramel/Crystal, Chocolate, and Roasted Barley; sparge; then boil with the 2.5lbs DME, right?

Thanks
 
1. 30 minutes is fine. That is what I do.

2. The general process is correct. I am a little confused. Are you saying cut the Amber DME from 4.5 to 2.5, keep the 1.5 lb Wheat DME, then add 3 lb Maris Otter to the mash? That should work fine. Your gravity might be SLIGHTLY lower but only by a couple points. If you get really high efficiency then maybe not. When I brew this again, I think I might do a PM like this:

3 lb Maris Otter
1 lb Crystal 60
0.75 lb Chocolate
0.5 lb Roasted barley

2 lb Wheat DME
2.5 lb Extra Light DME
0.5 lb Lactose
 
I'm going to give this a shot this weekend. I've decided just to stick with the Extract version in the OP but with a few modifications. Specifically, I'm using LME instead of DME because my LHBS always has a fresh supply and its cheaper. Also, I'm skipping the yeast nutrient and using Safale US-05 (which is what I've been using since I started brewing).

They had Denny's Fav. and 1056 but they said the Denny's wasn't the easiest yeast and that the 1056 was pretty similar to -05 but the -05 is considerably cheaper.

Thanks again for the recipe and I can't wait to brew it!
 
Just brewed this up. had an OG reading of 1.07?! I went extract and was a little heavy with the DME. I also used malto dextrine instead of lactose.

thoughts?
 
Well, depending on how heavy you went with the DME that could account for 10 points. Did you finish with exactly 5 gallons or less? Different brands of extract can vary a bit too. Some have slightly higher/lower potentials, but that wouldn't account for 10 whole points. If you changed things then sure, you gravity might be a little different. I don't know how malto dextrine compares to lactose as far as gravity goes. Maybe your hydrometer is a little off.

One thing I am pretty sure of though is that you will end up with good beer, so I wouldn't sweat it. :mug:
 
Well, depending on how heavy you went with the DME that could account for 10 points. Did you finish with exactly 5 gallons or less? Different brands of extract can vary a bit too. Some have slightly higher/lower potentials, but that wouldn't account for 10 whole points. If you changed things then sure, you gravity might be a little different. I don't know how malto dextrine compares to lactose as far as gravity goes. Maybe your hydrometer is a little off.

One thing I am pretty sure of though is that you will end up with good beer, so I wouldn't sweat it. :mug:

I was at 5 gallons. I added an extra .25lb of DME - so not THAT much. I am thinking maybe malto dextrine had something to do with it. Hydrometer is reading 1.000 with water so its good. I guess we will wait and see?

I also noticed activity in my airlock after about 12hrs which is pretty unusual for me. I typically dont see activity for about 24-36hrs.

I will take some gravity readings and let you know. I am excited for this one.

Thanks,
Zack
 
I also had an OG of 1.07. I followed the extract recipe except did LME instead of DME. I finished the boil with about 4.5 to 4.75 gallons of wert. I went ahead and topped it to about 5.25 gallons to hopefully offset the high OG (I don't know if that will actually work though :D).

My airlock activity has been fairly mild (but my last batch was a 1.082 batch with two packs of yeast that blew out of a 7 gallon bucket, so I guess anything would be mild by comparison ;))
 
If you ended up with 4.5 gallons, that would definitely make a difference.

My recipe in Beer Smith calculates to 1.058. When I brewed it I got 1.060, so I don't know what to tell you. I wouldn't even worry about it. If it comes out to 1.070, just a little bit more alcohol to enjoy :drunk:
 
:mug:

A couple more questions:
1. I brewed on the 12/5/09 and would like to bottle on 12/23/09 so that I can give some to my father in law as his christmas present. This would only be 2 and a half weeks of fermentation though. I guess I really should wait, huh? I planned to brew it earlier (with my father in law as a bonding activity:drunk:) but he had to postpone our brewdate by a week.

2. The fermentation for the first few days was at an ambient temp of about 60F (which makes the ferm temp 66F to 68F I assume). This is right on target. However, after the 4th day or so the temperature dropped and now my ambient temps are between 50F and 55F. Should I leave it in the garage at this temperature or would it be better to bring it in my house (which is about 70F? I guess I could try to rig a way to keep it warmer in the garage or colder in the house, of course.
 
I guess I really should wait, huh?

It really depends on the yeast your using and the temperature you are fermenting (see more below). If you are using something like the Chico strain that will tear through a beer, then yeah, 2 weeks could definitely be enough. Go off your gravity readings. If you are near 1.020 for a few days without a change, go ahead and bottle.

Should I leave it in the garage at this temperature or would it be better to bring it in my house (which is about 70F? I guess I could try to rig a way to keep it warmer in the garage or colder in the house, of course.

If the most active part of fermentation is over, go ahead and bring it in. You will not get much of a temperature rise after the first few days of fermentation, so your beer will most likely be sitting around 60 at most - too cold. You will most likely get stuck fermentation at that temperature. When activity seems to slow, bring it out of the cooler temps. The 70 degree ambient temperature will help it to finish out in time for Christmas without giving you off flavors.
 
It really depends on the yeast your using and the temperature you are fermenting (see more below). If you are using something like the Chico strain that will tear through a beer, then yeah, 2 weeks could definitely be enough. Go off your gravity readings. If you are near 1.020 for a few days without a change, go ahead and bottle.

Cool. Yeah, I'm using -05 so maybe it will be ready. I just looked in the bucket and the krausen's still there, but is lower than its peak. Looks like i had about 1.25" of Krausen at peak.

If the most active part of fermentation is over, go ahead and bring it in. You will not get much of a temperature rise after the first few days of fermentation, so your beer will most likely be sitting around 60 at most - too cold. You will most likely get stuck fermentation at that temperature. When activity seems to slow, bring it out of the cooler temps. The 70 degree ambient temperature will help it to finish out in time for Christmas without giving you off flavors.

Sounds good. I brought it in but its near the back door so maybe it will stay more around 68F than 70F.

Thanks!
 
I just moved from primary bucket to secondary carboy. I had a gravity of 1.024. I dont think I am going to go much lower than that and 1.070 to 1.024 puts me at 6.2% ABV.

This tasted pretty good but I think it needs a month or so to condition. I will wait a few weeks then go to bottle. (i dont have enough bottles empty at the moment). Will keep everyone posted.
 
This sounds fantastic. I only have a couple concerns because I am very new to home brewing. This recipe sounds a lot like Dragonmead's Earls Spit Stout which is simply awesome. Dragonmead describes it as : "This classic dry stout is moderately bittered with E. Kent Golding hops and is balanced between Roasted Barley and Chocolate Malts. It is fermented with Irish Ale Yeast that leaves the finish of the beer dry, thick and delicious. O.G. 1.066, ABV 6.2%" At any rate, I also find Guiness to be probably the most disgusting thing I have ever tasted. So the question is- based on this, do you think this is more like Dragonmead's or Guiness? I know this sounds like a loaded question, but I am concerned about spending all the time and money on anything that would taste like Guiness.
 
This is a sweet stout - pretty much the opposite of a dry stout. There are no late hops, the bitterness is low, and the lactose will ensure that this will finish slightly sweet - none of this is characteristic of Guinness. Also, you may not like the nitro that is common with Guinness and other commercial dry stouts. Also, my beer uses a significant amount of chocolate and caramel malts, while a classic dry irish stout usually relies soley on roasted barley for color and roastiness. Simply put, this is NOT a beer that will resemble Guinness. I don't know the full recipe for Dragonmead's stout, but it sounds like the Deception stout is a bit different from that one as well.
 
I just moved from primary bucket to secondary carboy. I had a gravity of 1.024. I dont think I am going to go much lower than that and 1.070 to 1.024 puts me at 6.2% ABV.

This tasted pretty good but I think it needs a month or so to condition. I will wait a few weeks then go to bottle. (i dont have enough bottles empty at the moment). Will keep everyone posted.

It definitely comes together more after a month. Generally, beer with lots of roasted malts take a bit more time to hit their prime. As far as your gravity situation goes, 1.024 isn't all that uncommon for a sweet stout that starts at 1.070. You probably should have left it in primary for just a little longer to let it drop a couple of points, but it isn't going to ruin your beer or anything. I am definitely anxious to hear how it turns out for you.
 
Thanks NC... Simply being nothing like Guiness is worth trying. Actually, the way you explain how it finishes is the selling point! I'm going to go to my LHBS this weekend and get the ingredients. Thanks! Any suggestions for how long I should leave it bottled?
 
Also, you may not like the nitro that is common with Guinness and other commercial dry stouts.

You may have a point here... Within the past week I had another Guiness product, Smithwick. It wasn't bad, but I noted it had no nitro. Also I had Beamish, which does have nitro. The Beamish had the same nasty flavor as Guiness Draught.

Ohwell, at any rate, I'm doing this recipe today. The only change I am making is that I am using the 1028 because my LHBS didn't have Denny's and because all of the grains I used were English (I don't know if it'll make a difference, but I figured I'd keep it all English). Also, I will use Yakima Magnum (14.4%) because my LHBS didn't have the German. I really can't wait until this one is finished.

Finally, My LHBS says to bottle this for at least 3 months.... Does anyone else think that sounds a bit long? Or is he right?

Primary 1: None (Soon to be this)
Primary 2: None
Secondary: None
Bottled: Bavarian Wheat
Bottled: Belgian Wit
 
Ohwell, at any rate, I'm doing this recipe today. The only change I am making is that I am using the 1028 because my LHBS didn't have Denny's and because all of the grains I used were English (I don't know if it'll make a difference, but I figured I'd keep it all English). Also, I will use Yakima Magnum (14.4%) because my LHBS didn't have the German. I really can't wait until this one is finished.

Finally, My LHBS says to bottle this for at least 3 months.... Does anyone else think that sounds a bit long? Or is he right?

Any kind of Magnum is fine...actually, any clean bittering hop really. Also, 1028 would be my first choice of yeast after 1450, so good call there. As far as aging goes, 3 months will make a nice beer, but it isn't necessary. I would start drinking it after 1 month - it should be plenty of time. Happy brewing! :mug:
 
Thanks! I will try a bottle after a month. Boy, while this one was boiling, I couldn't get over the fantastic aroma! I had a friend over while I was brewing and he can't wait either until this one is ready!
 
do you shop at american brewmaster or online? i want to try this one soon even though it will warm up when its done. tis my way.
 
I bottled this yesterday (after 3 weeks in primary). I had a FG of 1.022. Wasn't as sugary sweet as I had expected...much better balanced. Reminds me a bit of Left Hand's Milk Stout. I can definitely taste coffee, but not chocolate (maybe this will come out as it ages).

At any rate, I think this is going to be one of my best brews so far...thanks a ton for the recipe and I'll post some tasting notes in a few months!
 
You are very welcome! Yeah, the chocolate and roastiness come out over the course of a month or so as it conditions, with the coffee most prominent at first. Left Hand uses more lactose, but yeah, fairly similar. 1.022 sounds right on! It is weird how it finishes so high, yet doesn't seem cloying. I guess the lactose just has that effect or something - this was my first time using it.

Also for your Simple APA, I suggest a Mirror Pond clone. I have one that is a week into primary and it is damn good. PM me if you want a recipe.
 
I finally kegged this last night, I brewed it back on 11/15 (see my post earlier in this thread) and did a PM with changes to the yeast (1084) and hop schedule (.85oz of whole leaf Galena at FWH), and Marris Otter as the base grain. I let this sit in the primary the entire time, never moved it to secondary.

After I put the keg on gas, I poured a bit into a pint to get the air out of the beer line and also to get a little taste of it ... quite simply, this is the best beer that I've ever brewed - and it was completely flat and warm! My wife and mother-in-law both tasted it and they concurred as well, this is an excellent beer.

It is extremely smooth and yet somewhat robust in flavor .... we were actually drinking Turbo Dog last night, and when we sampled this stout we noted that it actually resembled the taste of Turbo Dog but smoother ... kind of ended up somewhere in between the spectrum of Turbo Dog and Guinness

If it tastes just as good once its carbed and cooled I can tell you right now that I will keep this on tap year round --- thanks NCBeernut !!!
 
Awesome! Now for the hard part - not letting the keg go dry right away. I think I might try it with 1084 next time.

:mug:
 
Awesome! Now for the hard part - not letting the keg go dry right away. I think I might try it with 1084 next time.

:mug:

Roger that! I've got a plan though, I have several spare kegs and plan to start a pipeline of this stout .... one keg on tap, one near ready to be on tap for when I kick this keg, and one just started to age, keep that rolling through ... that should keep my tap flowing !!!

:mug:
 
NCBeernut,

Would you be able to scale the extract recipe down to a 4 gallon batch for me? Sorry but I'm a noob and I don't have any brewing software at the moment.

I just purchased a 5 gallon carboy that I was planning to use as a secondary. However, I would like to show my boys the fermenting process (I currently use an ale pail - which doesn't have the same viewing fun factor) so I was thinking about using the 5 gallon as the fermenter.

So, I'm thinking I'll need a 4 gallon batch to avoid too much blow-off.

And if I plan on bottling, do you think 4 ozs priming sugar would be sufficient?

Thanks in advance.
 
NCBeernut,

Would you be able to scale the extract recipe down to a 4 gallon batch for me? Sorry but I'm a noob and I don't have any brewing software at the moment.

I just purchased a 5 gallon carboy that I was planning to use as a secondary. However, I would like to show my boys the fermenting process (I currently use an ale pail - which doesn't have the same viewing fun factor) so I was thinking about using the 5 gallon as the fermenter.

So, I'm thinking I'll need a 4 gallon batch to avoid too much blow-off.

And if I plan on bottling, do you think 4 ozs priming sugar would be sufficient?

Thanks in advance.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/brewtarget/

It is free and the author is a member of this forum. Enjoy. :rockin:
 
Back
Top