09-06-2009, 05:10 PM   #31
jdieter
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Feb 2009
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Nice work TH, is there a reason you didn't include canning salt in the adjustments cells. There are times I prefer it over baking soda so I don't increase the bicarbonate but increase the chloride to sulfate ratio.

09-06-2009, 06:06 PM   #32
MarsColonist

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by -TH- This is what I had noted on the spreadsheet: Bicarbonate (HCO3) = Alkalinity as CaCO3 x 60 / 52 It was a little unclear because of the text wrap not to mention it should have been 61 / 50. Now it shows: Bicarbonate (HCO3) = Alkalinity as CaCO3 x 1.22
The 1.22 factor only works if your original pH is 8.4 or less. Here in Austin, our municipal water is ~9.4, and the most recent water report shows "Total alkalinity (as CaCO3) = 72"... by the 1.22 that would make the HCO3 = 87.8, but due to the high pH, a different formula has to be used.

From: Alkalinity (As of CaCO3 to As of HCO3-): Practical guide on unit conversion | Coal Geology & Mining

http://coalgeology.com/wp-content/up...geologycom.xls

From above spreadsheet: HCO3 = (Alkalinity as CaCO3 * 61) / (( 1 + ((2x10^-10.3)/(10^(-pH)))*50)

My calc comes out as 54, which is significantly off from the aforementioned 88...

Apparently, this is because "At higher pH carbonic acid becomes more stable than the bicarbonate ion."
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09-08-2009, 07:28 AM   #33
GilaMinumBeer
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Why don't you or Palmer include for Sodium Chloride (NaCl)?

09-08-2009, 05:11 PM   #34
-TH-

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by maxhavoc The 1.22 factor only works if your original pH is 8.4 or less. Here in Austin, our municipal water is ~9.4, and the most recent water report shows "Total alkalinity (as CaCO3) = 72"... by the 1.22 that would make the HCO3 = 87.8, but due to the high pH, a different formula has to be used. From: Alkalinity (As of CaCO3 to As of HCO3-): Practical guide on unit conversion | Coal Geology & Mining http://coalgeology.com/wp-content/up...geologycom.xls From above spreadsheet: HCO3 = (Alkalinity as CaCO3 * 61) / (( 1 + ((2x10^-10.3)/(10^(-pH)))*50) My calc comes out as 54, which is significantly off from the aforementioned 88... Apparently, this is because "At higher pH carbonic acid becomes more stable than the bicarbonate ion."
Thanks for pointing that out. I've looked into this a bit now and I think I'll leave it alone for a few reasons: 1. Palmer's spreadsheet doesn't account for it. 2. Even up to a pH of 9 its still in the ball park (within 10%). 3. I'm not sure if it even matters since the mash will bring the pH down anyways.

Ironically my spreadsheet (and Palmer's) convert back to alkalinity as CaCO3 to calculate Residual Alkalinity (using the 1.22) so if you put in your number (times 1.22) it would later divide by 1.22 and you'd be fine. THe spreadsheet would only be off (possibly) for those who enter HCO3 directly and have high water pH.

Also, just FYI when I put your numbers into the calculator on the second link you gave, I got 70.2 for the calculated HCO3 (not 54).

Also, just FYI my virus software picks up a trojan threat in the first link you posted.

Cheers!
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09-08-2009, 05:29 PM   #35
SpanishCastleAle

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Quote:
 Thanks for pointing that out. I've looked into this a bit now and I think I'll leave it alone for a few reasons: 1. Palmer's spreadsheet doesn't account for it.
Palmers spreadsheet let's you choose which unit...it's not obvious that it has this feature but it is there.
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09-08-2009, 06:57 PM   #36
-TH-

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by SpanishCastleAle Palmers spreadsheet let's you choose which unit...it's not obvious that it has this feature but it is there.
Yes but if you look at his formulas he converts using a straight conversion (50/61). He does not factor in water pH like maxhavoc pointed out.

I updated mine so that you can enter either number to make it easier.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by GilaMinumBeer Why don't you or Palmer include for Sodium Chloride (NaCl)?
I'm not sure, maybe because he cautions against having Na AND Cl both high (in other words he recommends keeping one or the other low). Anyways I updated mine now to include it.

EDIT: I just read Palmer again and he says keep Na paired with Sulfates low (not Cl) so scratch what I just said above.
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09-08-2009, 07:20 PM   #37
MarsColonist

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by -TH- Also, just FYI when I put your numbers into the calculator on the second link you gave, I got 70.2 for the calculated HCO3 (not 54). Also, just FYI my virus software picks up a trojan threat in the first link you posted.
I use AVG, and I didnt get any trojan notice... hmmm.
Also, Im now not sure how I got 54. His spreadsheet does indeed show 70.2.
Thanks for the heads up! Now I have to see where my cali common stands for the salts I added
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09-08-2009, 07:23 PM   #38
-TH-

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by maxhavoc I use AVG, and I didnt get any trojan notice... hmmm.
It looks like its in a pop-up. Yours probably blocks the pop up better than mine therefore no virus warning. Anyhoo...
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09-08-2009, 07:48 PM   #39
Bobby_M
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If you're open to suggestions, how about listing common city/style target profiles in another worksheet in the file?
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09-08-2009, 08:26 PM   #40
-TH-

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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bobby_M If you're open to suggestions, how about listing common city/style target profiles in another worksheet in the file?
Done deal.
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