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Old 11-09-2009, 12:12 AM   #121
Bobby_M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weetodd View Post
Really great spreadsheet, thanks for creating it and for also making it available for download. Also, thanks Bobby for the great videos.

One question on the initial numbers for mash water volume and sparge water volume. For example purposes let's say I mash with 5 gallons, sparge with 3 for 8 total preboil and expect a post boil volume of 6. The mash water one is easy--just the volume of water that is used in the initial mash (5). But, for the sparge water? In Bobby's videos, he uses the full amount of the sparge water (the additional 3 in my example) to get additions for the full pre-boil volume--so we're adding enough minerals to get the right ppm for 8 gallons. After thinking about this, doesn't the boil remove water but leave the minerals behind? (I'm not a scientist so not sure if the minerals would evaporate with the water vapor) So should the mineral additions calculate off of how much minerals we want with the finished beer (6 gallons vs. preboil of 8)

Thanks
I had the same concerns when I first started with this and thought about the concentration of minerals. The explanation that satisfied me was that we're trying to make water that you'd find in famous brewing cities. They start with that water and also concentrate the minerals down in the boil. When you're simply trying to dial in minimum levels, it's probably reasonable to undershoot a bit for that reason. I'm still learning.


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Old 11-09-2009, 10:59 PM   #122
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Fair point and I agree. I am going to do a little research and let you know if I come up with anything interesting that would sway it either way. I tend to take the approach that it's probably not going to really matter that much as long as you have things straight for the mash.



 
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:10 PM   #123
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Slightly off topic, after using the spreadsheet and creating water to match the brew, would I still want/need to use 5.2 mash stabilizer? Or would that defeat the purpose?

 
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:07 AM   #124
LeeF
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I believe it defeats the purpose. 5.2 alone will get the mash pH where you need it but does not manipulate the Cl:SO4 or other minerals considered important to the yeast/beer. This spreadsheet and brewing salts also gets the mash pH where you need it but also gives you a better knob for fine tuning the mineral content.

 
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:10 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weetodd View Post
...I tend to take the approach that it's probably not going to really matter that much as long as you have things straight for the mash.
Bingo. The salts added to the boil are strictly for flavor purposes so I doubt you would be able to detect the difference of a few ppms in either direction - especially if you are within the recommended ranges. And besides, regardless of whether or not the ppms change after boiling, the recommended ranges pertain to the starting (or pre-boil) water levels and not post-boil levels.
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Old 11-13-2009, 02:56 PM   #126
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I just want to pipe in here and tell you that I really like the EZ Calculator. I've been reading up on water for a while and trying to wrap my mind around the nomographs and chemistry, and this thing has at least gotten me able to comprehend what I need to do to adjust my water, and a basic understanding of what's going on.

Hopefully it will be the start of a more complete understanding, but for now it's a great tool to get me going.
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:09 PM   #127
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TH,

Great spreadsheet. Thank you.

I'm confused though about the RA calculation on the bottom. When using your spreadsheet, it seems as though a REALLY high mash water RA is needed for dark beers. I was brewing an Irish Stout yesterday (34 SRM), and came up with the following adjustment using your spreadsheet:

__________________________________________________ __________
Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 5.8
Mg: 5.2
Na: 11
Cl: 0.9
SO4: 1.9
HCO3: 57

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 4 / 3
Dilution Rate: 0%

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaCO3: 7 / 0
CaSO4: 1 / 0.75
CaCl2: 1.5 / 0
MgSO4: 0.8 / 0.6
NaHCO3: 4 / 0
NaCl: 0 / 0
HCL Acid: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid: 0 / 0

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 233 / 142
Mg: 10 / 10
Na: 83 / 52
Cl: 49 / 28
SO4: 59 / 59
CaCO3: 431 / 266

RA (mash only): 258 (26 to 31 SRM)
Cl to SO4 (total water): 0.48 (Very Bitter)
___________________________________________

It seemed strange to have a CaCO3 level of 431 in my mash water (which is what I needed to have for the spreadsheet to calculate an adjusted mash RA of 258 *best for 26 to 31 SRM*. Isn't this excessive? If I were in Dublin using their water (which is supposedly ideal for the style), wouldn't I only have a mash water RA of 175, giving me a spreadsheet calculated adjusted mash RA of 83 *best for 12 to 27 SRM.*

Maybe I am totally missing something? I guess I'm confused.

 
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:36 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oloroso27 View Post
TH,

Great spreadsheet. Thank you.

I'm confused though about the RA calculation on the bottom. When using your spreadsheet, it seems as though a REALLY high mash water RA is needed for dark beers. I was brewing an Irish Stout yesterday (34 SRM), and came up with the following adjustment using your spreadsheet:

__________________________________________________ __________
Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 5.8
Mg: 5.2
Na: 11
Cl: 0.9
SO4: 1.9
HCO3: 57

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 4 / 3
Dilution Rate: 0%

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaCO3: 7 / 0
CaSO4: 1 / 0.75
CaCl2: 1.5 / 0
MgSO4: 0.8 / 0.6
NaHCO3: 4 / 0
NaCl: 0 / 0
HCL Acid: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid: 0 / 0

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 233 / 142
Mg: 10 / 10
Na: 83 / 52
Cl: 49 / 28
SO4: 59 / 59
CaCO3: 431 / 266

RA (mash only): 258 (26 to 31 SRM)
Cl to SO4 (total water): 0.48 (Very Bitter)
___________________________________________

It seemed strange to have a CaCO3 level of 431 in my mash water (which is what I needed to have for the spreadsheet to calculate an adjusted mash RA of 258 *best for 26 to 31 SRM*. Isn't this excessive? If I were in Dublin using their water (which is supposedly ideal for the style), wouldn't I only have a mash water RA of 175, giving me a spreadsheet calculated adjusted mash RA of 83 *best for 12 to 27 SRM.*

Maybe I am totally missing something? I guess I'm confused.
All I can say is that the spreadsheet uses Palmer's formula and nomograph. You are not the first to notice that on darker beers it seems the RA needs to get really high. I have seen others here post that they have had good success with leaving the RA a little below recommended on such beers. I am tempted to adjust the spreadsheet a bit but I am leery to veer from Palmer without doing a little more scientific research first.
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Old 01-13-2010, 09:20 PM   #129
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I'm sure this has been asked, but I can't find it. It gives "recommended" ranges, but most of the area specific profiles (london, munich...), have ranges outside of the recommended range. Which should i follow?

And where can I find recommended water profiles for many different styles of beer?

THanks

 
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Old 01-13-2010, 09:33 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kozydogg View Post
I'm sure this has been asked, but I can't find it. It gives "recommended" ranges, but most of the area specific profiles (london, munich...), have ranges outside of the recommended range. Which should i follow?

And where can I find recommended water profiles for many different styles of beer?

THanks
If you are trying to adjust your local water to a style specific benifit, you'd follow the recomended ranges as shown. However, if you are trying to match a regions profile then you try to match that profile as best as possible.

But there is no harm in trying to emulate a profile and tweaking it for the balance you seek.

Many regions are known for the style of beer they brew but, ironically, often the water is not ideal. And many breweries adjust their water accordingly. the profiles you will find won't be brewery profiles. They'll be water source profiles. And, as the brewery would, you'd adjust that to suite your desired results. For example, for Pilsen, you'd calculate to match profile and then adjust that to the proper RA balance.



 
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