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Old 07-08-2011, 09:27 PM   #411
runs4beer
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I gave up on re-pitching yeast that was anything but a starter in high krausen 2-3 times was all the disappointing I could handle. I have drop a stuck dark strong Belgian from 1.024 to 1.012 this way w/ 3711, if you have/can get another pack then try making starter this time.
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Old 07-08-2011, 10:41 PM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runs4beer View Post
I gave up on re-pitching yeast that was anything but a starter in high krausen 2-3 times was all the disappointing I could handle. I have drop a stuck dark strong Belgian from 1.024 to 1.012 this way w/ 3711, if you have/can get another pack then try making starter this time.
Thanks for all the info folks. I RDWHAHB on this batch, and do it correctly next time.

 
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:22 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by petep1980 View Post
Thanks for all the info folks. I RDWHAHB on this batch, and do it correctly next time.
If you give that beer a good hard swirl and move to a warm location it may kick into gear again.

 
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:09 PM   #414
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Meh, I think starters are unnecessary UNLESS you're using harvested / washed yeast or are paranoid about infection. I just pitched the inflated smack pack 3711 straight in a Belgian IPA (OG = 1064) and it started visibly fermenting within 8 hours & came out great. Fermented 2 weeks at 70F and FG dropped to 1005. Dry, hoppy, earthy/spicy and delicious. I've completed 13 batches and used starters in 2; I believe smack packs give you plenty of healthy yeast to pitch.
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Old 07-10-2011, 12:01 AM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houndsbreath
Meh, I think starters are unnecessary UNLESS you're using harvested / washed yeast or are paranoid about infection. I just pitched the inflated smack pack 3711 straight in a Belgian IPA (OG = 1064) and it started visibly fermenting within 8 hours & came out great. Fermented 2 weeks at 70F and FG dropped to 1005. Dry, hoppy, earthy/spicy and delicious. I've completed 13 batches and used starters in 2; I believe smack packs give you plenty of healthy yeast to pitch.
That's great you like what you made but you won't make anything commercial quality without using a starter with liquid yeast, I guarantee it.
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Old 07-10-2011, 12:13 AM   #416
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i disagree. If the gravity's under like 1060 the normal size package of white labs or wyeast is about the cell count most people recommend.
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Old 07-10-2011, 12:38 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by edb23 View Post
i disagree. If the gravity's under like 1060 the normal size package of white labs or wyeast is about the cell count most people recommend.
You can't really make a blanket statement like that for all beers under 1.060; the packaging date and handling has a large effect on the viability of the yeast. Part of the reason many people make starters is to offset this decrease in viability, it's not just to make beers bigger than 1.060.

 
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Old 07-10-2011, 01:01 AM   #418
runs4beer
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Originally Posted by edb23 View Post
i disagree. If the gravity's under like 1060 the normal size package of white labs or wyeast is about the cell count most people recommend.
Well, this might need to be a new thread. edb23, open a new thread in this section with the quote above or ask what the threash hold is for requireing a starter when you want want to make the very best beer you can. If you are referring only to a saison with 3711 then yes a good beer can be made with out a starter but as the thread will tell you this a yeast of a different beast.
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Old 07-10-2011, 01:14 AM   #419
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Ha i don't think i need a new thread, i make starters when i feel i need them taking viability and all that into account. I was just saying as a rule of thumb low/medium gravity beers do just fine without a starter, especially when you're using a thug yeast like 3711
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Old 07-10-2011, 12:01 PM   #420
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For 3711 I agree, underpitching gets you more of the flavours you're after in a Saison.

Otherwise, I'd say there's a lot of threads here (as well as info on the interweb) that seems to indicate that viable cell counts are pretty important, backed up with a fair bit of science, competition scores, etc.

 
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