Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Is greater than 100% efficiency possible?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-27-2009, 04:55 PM   #1
dwarven_stout
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,629
Liked 37 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default Is greater than 100% efficiency possible?

My first reaction: no, of course not!
Then I found this on specialtymalts.com:

Quote:
Quote:
What does the lab do to get 100% extract yield? A professional brewer mentioned that one place he worked got better than 100% by separating the starch and husks, then grinding the starch very finely and mashing in a shallow, large diameter tun. What other techniques are practical (or not) for production brewing?
Posed by Don Obenauer, Atlanta GA USA on May 12, 1999
In essence, the lab uses just the endosperm portion of the kernel. You could expect material losses in this seperation process to be very high and also very time consuming.

Extract is determined by the specific density of extracted solution. This density is compared to a similar sugar solution. With this definition, the amount of sugar extracted could very well be above 100% if the specific gravity were high enough.
Anyone have more info on this? It sounds like it's possible under extreme conditions (read: not worthwhile except in a theoretical sense).


dwarven_stout is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 05:04 PM   #2
wildwest450
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,099
Liked 170 Times on 155 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

I know I always give a 110%, at least that's what I say in the press conferences.


wildwest450 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 05:06 PM   #3
IXVolt
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
IXVolt's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,734
Liked 79 Times on 54 Posts
Likes Given: 77

Default

Over 100% would be pulling more starch/sugars out of the grain than exists...
IXVolt is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 05:06 PM   #4
sundowner
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Walk About Creek
Posts: 222
Liked 6 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

I'll settle for my 85% unless I'm on the football field. In that case, I'll give 110%
__________________
A person who knows everything, knows nothing...
sundowner is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 05:07 PM   #5
Rothman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 27
Likes Given: 1

Default

I'm pretty sure it is possible to exceed 100%. I don't have it with me but I remember a line from "Brewing Science and Practice" saying that newer brewing systems may be exceding the 100% mark. I think that better methods or equipment have allowed brewers to pass the old benchmark.
Rothman is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 05:13 PM   #6
SavageSteve
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
SavageSteve's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 990
Liked 9 Times on 6 Posts

Default

By definition, you cannot have more than 100% of a thing.

Most likely, the 100% extraction number is defined as the most that a lab can produce from a given malt given a specific efficient process. If you somehow get more sugars than a professional lab can, then you aren't really getting more than 100% of potential sugars, just more than the lab got.

-Steve
__________________
On Deck: Jamil's Vanilla Robust Porter
Fermenting: Orange Blossom Mead
Kegs: Element 56 Pale Ale, Ron's Belgian Blonde, Summer'n Saison, Furloughktoberfest '09, Grateful Pale Ale, Sam Adams Cream Stout Clone, EdWort's Apfelwein
Planning: n/a
SavageSteve is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 05:20 PM   #7
weirdboy
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,991
Liked 436 Times on 356 Posts
Likes Given: 63

Default

Right, the whole deal with extract efficiency calculations is that we use baseline numbers for potential extract for different types of grain. These extract potentials are going to vary based on a lot of factors including age of grain, where it was grown, when it was grown, the weather, how it was transported, etc.

So just the basic assumptions that go into calculating extract efficiency have a lot of variation that is not usually considered.
weirdboy is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 05:22 PM   #8
mattmcl
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mattmcl's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Erie, CO
Posts: 730
Liked 10 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

My guitar amp goes up to 11.
mattmcl is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 05:30 PM   #9
DrinksWellWithOthers
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 968
Liked 9 Times on 8 Posts

Default

That's nothing, my mash tun goes to 11. That's how I get 117% efficiency.
DrinksWellWithOthers is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2009, 05:44 PM   #10
dwarven_stout
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,629
Liked 37 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageSteve View Post
By definition, you cannot have more than 100% of a thing.

Most likely, the 100% extraction number is defined as the most that a lab can produce from a given malt given a specific efficient process. If you somehow get more sugars than a professional lab can, then you aren't really getting more than 100% of potential sugars, just more than the lab got.

-Steve
Let's rephrase the question, then. Is it possible, in a homebrew setting, to get better efficiency than the testing lab?


dwarven_stout is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The more you brew the greater chance of infection Grinder12000 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 16 08-19-2009 01:19 PM
Greater Baton Rouge area pedalmedic Louisiana HomeBrew Forum 1 01-27-2009 01:56 PM
Howdy from the greater Philadelphia Area. sps0301 Introductions 1 01-04-2009 10:31 PM
Greater Hop Utilization cheezydemon General Techniques 13 08-25-2008 05:02 PM
Anyone use a 12 inch or greater collar for a keezer? ghart999 Bottling/Kegging 7 05-13-2008 08:00 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS