Coldbreak Brewing HERMS Giveaway!

HomeBrewSupply AMCYL Brew Kettle Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > 2 beers, 1 mash - Lazy man's Partigyle - What are your thoughts?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-08-2009, 07:58 PM   #1
Griffsta
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Concord, OH (CLEVELAND)
Posts: 104
Default 2 beers, 1 mash - Lazy man's Partigyle - What are your thoughts?

I am going to try to brew both of these beers at the same time, using one mash. Not really a true partigyle (because Im not seperating the wort mid sparge). But something similar.

Here are the two recipes I am going make:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/nier...a-clone-27673/
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/dead...ee-note-25902/

(thank you Beirmuncher and Yooperbrew!!!)

I have spent the last 2 days of my free time playing with beersmith to get the right weights and necessary volumes. Essentially, I have made a base-wort recipe that I can covert into each of these two brews. I was able to use the SNPA recipe for the entire base wort. That meant, that for the Dead Guy Clone, I replaced the Cara-Munich with Cara-Pils, and the crystal 40 L to crystal 60 L. I want the added head retention with the cara-pils, and Im hoping that the change from the crystal 40 to 60 wont tweek the flavor too much.

Here are the recipes.

For my base wort, I have used the SNPA grain bill (I added an extra pount of 2-row because I will collect an extra gallon, as I boil a lot off):

16 lbs of 2 row (US)
1 lb of carapils
1 lb of crystal 60 L

I will mash this at about 155 for an hour, flysparge, and collect about 13 gallons. This should give me a gravity (after boil) of about 1.046 - perfect for the SNPA). I will divide this into boil kettles, each with 6.5 gallons (boil off about a gallon each).

Then, I will make the SNPA clone as is (without steeping any extra grains, since the base wort boil is essentially an 11 gallon batch of the SNPA. Just add hops, per the schedule, and its ready to go.

The Dead Guy Clone will be made as follows:

Use half the base wort as described above, then steep 3 lbs of 2 row (US) and 1 lb of Munich for 30 min before the boil.

Then boil and add hops, etc, as normal.

By steeping the 2 row and munich, I get the higher gravity (1.066) and same ingredients (except for trading out the cara-munich for cara-pils, and switching from crystal 40L to 60L) as the Original Dead Guy recipe.

A couple quesitons for you pro's:

In the Dead Guy clone, will the excange of Cara-Munich with Cara-Pils, and the crystal 40 L to crystal 60 L make that much of a difference? I can always use only pale 2-row for the base wort, then steep grains in both boil kettles to get the exact ingredients. The fact is, I want the SNPA to be as close as possible. I dont mind if the Dead Guy clone is slightly different, as long as it tastes similar, and GOOD!

Is there anything that I am missing about all this? I get the same amount of sugar out of steeping as I do mashing, right?

So, please let me know what you guys think. Any comments are greatly appreciated!


__________________
_____________________________________________
GRIFFIN'S GROGGERY

PRIMARY 1 -
PRIMARY 2 -
SECONDARY 1 -
KEG 1 - Griff's Amarillo Pale Ale
KEG 2 - Christmas in Ireland Stout
KEG 3 - Bee Cave Hefewiezen
KEG 4 - Orange Honey Hefeweizen
KEG 5 - Dead Guy Clone
BOTTLED - SNPA Clone

_____________________________________________
Old Frothingslosh, the pale stale ale with the foam on the bottom, brewed from hippity-hops on the banks for the Upper Crudney in Lower Slobbovia.

Griffsta is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 09:24 PM   #2
uwjester
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
uwjester's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 736
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I'm considering doing a partigyle this coming weekend and have been doing some thinking on how to add to the 2nd runnings (weak beer). You aren't going to get the sugars from steeping that you would from mashing, especially with the 2-row and munich. Those have to be mashed. The munich will give you the flavor you are looking for though. I'm running into the same problem with honey malt which is what I want to use in the weak beer. I know it has to be mashed to get the sugar, but I may be able to get the body/flavor just by steeping.

I've never done a partial mash. I went from extract into all-grain. It seems that you could turn the dead guy clone into a partial mash though.


__________________
--------------------------------------------------
This space intentionally left blank.
--------------------------------------------------
uwjester is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 09:30 PM   #3
uwjester
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
uwjester's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 736
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Just thought of a couple of things. You could use caramunich instead of munich. That malt doesn't need to be mashed. As for the 2-row, you could use DME maybe.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------
This space intentionally left blank.
--------------------------------------------------
uwjester is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009, 12:13 AM   #4
Griffsta
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Concord, OH (CLEVELAND)
Posts: 104
Default

Well, if I take 3 lbs of pale 2 row, and I tell Beersmith that I am using it as in a partial mash, it raises the OG point for me. Why wouldnt I get sugars from it if I steep it?
__________________
_____________________________________________
GRIFFIN'S GROGGERY

PRIMARY 1 -
PRIMARY 2 -
SECONDARY 1 -
KEG 1 - Griff's Amarillo Pale Ale
KEG 2 - Christmas in Ireland Stout
KEG 3 - Bee Cave Hefewiezen
KEG 4 - Orange Honey Hefeweizen
KEG 5 - Dead Guy Clone
BOTTLED - SNPA Clone

_____________________________________________
Old Frothingslosh, the pale stale ale with the foam on the bottom, brewed from hippity-hops on the banks for the Upper Crudney in Lower Slobbovia.
Griffsta is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009, 12:13 AM   #5
Schnitzengiggle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,665
Liked 30 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uwjester View Post
Just thought of a couple of things. You could use caramunich instead of munich. That malt doesn't need to be mashed. As for the 2-row, you could use DME maybe.
Well, are you mashing or steeping?

They are different.

+1 steeping will not cause conversion, therefore, the addition of some DME to raise the gravity would be a great choice as uwjester states.

If you are using the munich solely for the flavor, then steeping that would be okay, but once again uwjester's suggestion of using caramunich is a good alternative.

Basically what uwjester says!
__________________
follow me @ Broken Glass Brewery

Okham's Razor - simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

My DIY Kegerator - My DIY Fermentation Chamber - My DIY Portable Pump Box
Schnitzengiggle is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009, 02:25 AM   #6
uwjester
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
uwjester's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 736
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffsta View Post
Well, if I take 3 lbs of pale 2 row, and I tell Beersmith that I am using it as in a partial mash, it raises the OG point for me. Why wouldnt I get sugars from it if I steep it?

I remember beersmith raising the OG in extract batches too, but does it put an exclamation point at the beginning of the line? I think Beersmith is telling you that it is a must-mash grain.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------
This space intentionally left blank.
--------------------------------------------------
uwjester is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009, 05:04 AM   #7
gxm
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 556
Liked 7 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

My last 50 5 gallon batches have all been doing this sort of "partigyle".

If you steep 2-row, you're not going to convert the sugars as efficiently, which means the carbohydrates may not get broken down into simpler (yeast eatable ) sugars. This may lead to hazier beer and a higher than expected FG.

I have a custom spreadsheet that makes this easier than using one of the programs, but I don't have time to throw that together tonight. Should be able to tomorrow.
gxm is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009, 11:37 AM   #8
Griffsta
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Concord, OH (CLEVELAND)
Posts: 104
Default

THats great. I only brewed 4 extract batches before I went all grain with a 3 keggle system. Therefore, I only steeped grains once (2nd batch), and have never had to since. I didnt realize that you dont get convertable sugars without an actual mash. I mistakenly figured... heat + water + grains + time = sugars My math sucks.
__________________
_____________________________________________
GRIFFIN'S GROGGERY

PRIMARY 1 -
PRIMARY 2 -
SECONDARY 1 -
KEG 1 - Griff's Amarillo Pale Ale
KEG 2 - Christmas in Ireland Stout
KEG 3 - Bee Cave Hefewiezen
KEG 4 - Orange Honey Hefeweizen
KEG 5 - Dead Guy Clone
BOTTLED - SNPA Clone

_____________________________________________
Old Frothingslosh, the pale stale ale with the foam on the bottom, brewed from hippity-hops on the banks for the Upper Crudney in Lower Slobbovia.
Griffsta is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009, 12:21 PM   #9
Baja_Brewer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 2,410
Liked 69 Times on 52 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

I've been looking into doing this. I think instead of "steeping" the grains as stated here, I would call it "stove-top mashing" like Deathbrewer's thread on stove top all grain. What I do when I do that is a high quantity of water (1.5-2 qts/lb) and try and maintain a temp of ~150 for 40+ min. Call it steep or mash, I've gotten 75% efficiency from that.

gxm, I'd be interested in seeing your spreadsheet, as this is a route I'd enjoy exploring more thoroughly.
__________________
Courage les garçons, et patience, vos femmes vont finir par apprécier la bière !
Baja_Brewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2009, 12:28 PM   #10
wilserbrewer
BIAB Expert Tailor
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
 
wilserbrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Jersey Shore, Jersey
Posts: 8,169
Liked 821 Times on 655 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

What i would do is to mash all of the base grain and divide the runnings such that the Dead Guy has more of the first runnings to gain a higher gravity. The SNPA will get more of the second / third runnings so both get equal volumes of runnings.

Makes little sense to me to mash and then mini mash?

Steep specialty grain to alter each batch acccordingly.


wilserbrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lazy Man's Solution to fixing a bottled batch that never carbs iamjonsharp Bottling/Kegging 2 09-21-2009 11:54 PM
Review the Pre-Hopped Kits (lazy man's beer) BrewOnBoard Extract Brewing 37 08-18-2009 04:29 PM
Lazy (too lazy?) cider experiment - what now? jackbird Cider Forum 5 11-19-2008 11:40 PM
Partial Mash Pale Ale. Thoughts? bearkluttz Recipes/Ingredients 12 09-16-2008 06:30 PM
Lazy man's rice wine: would this work? Bosh Wine Making Forum 7 08-28-2007 02:51 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS