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Old 07-07-2009, 02:23 AM   #1
JLem
 
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This past weekend I tried Widmer's Drifter Pale Ale and I think it might be my new favorite beer - not too bitter and packed with a ton of citrusy hop flavor. Apparently it's the Summit hops that give it this flavor. I'd like to try making something similar.

The AA% of Summit is incredibly high (17-19%), so how do I use them to get their tangerine-like flavor without over-bittering? According to Widmer's website, Drifter is only ~30 IBUs.

Using BeerSmith I put together a first draft recipe using the following hops schedule:
0.25 oz Warrior (60 min)
0.5 oz Summit (20 min)
0.5 oz Summit (8 min)

This gives me 36.6 IBUs - most of it coming from the late additions of the Summit. Will this work? I've never brewed something where the "bittering" hops addition yielded less than 1/2 of the overall bitterness.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:44 AM   #2
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Drifter is a very good beer. My favorite pale ale, if not beer.

Might move the flavor hops up to 15m and the aroma to flameout and see what that does with the IBUs.

 
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:40 AM   #3
samc
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Send Widmer an email. See if you can get some info from them. Sounds like a nice beer you are trying to make but without the NZ hops not sure you are going to be close to what they are brewing. They may be using small amounts of Summit and larger amounts of the Nelson Sauvin which has a lower AA%.

 
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Old 07-07-2009, 04:57 AM   #4
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Summit is an awesome awesome hop. A little goes a long way, whenever you use it. That said, I dry-hop 1.5 oz of it at a time. Tangerine comes out like crazy. It smells a bit onion-like in pellet form to me, but I haven't ever got those flavors or aromas out in the beer yet.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budzu View Post
Summit is an awesome awesome hop. A little goes a long way, whenever you use it. That said, I dry-hop 1.5 oz of it at a time. Tangerine comes out like crazy. It smells a bit onion-like in pellet form to me, but I haven't ever got those flavors or aromas out in the beer yet.
When you say a little goes a long way - how much is "a little". I am concerned with getting enough flavor/aroma while keeping the bitterness down, but if I can cut down on the late additions I'd feel better about being able to control the bitterness with the 60 minute hops.

Can I go less than 0.5 ounce for flavor and aroma?

(I think I'll try dry-hopping with it too - thanks for the idea)
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:43 PM   #6
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bump - sorry - I didn't want this to get lost if there were still folks who could chime in.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:06 PM   #7
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I also vote for moving the additions later. I would do a 10min and flame out addition.


One thing i really like about summit, is that it is a high alpha hop but the bittering is not harsh like other high alpha hops.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:15 PM   #8
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Eliminate the bittering add and control the IBUs with the flavor add. Maybe add some gooseberries with the dry hopping if you don't have any nelson sauvin. Or add a bottle of Sauvignon Blanc at the end.
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Old 07-08-2009, 02:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david_42 View Post
Eliminate the bittering add and control the IBUs with the flavor add.
I thought about that, but wasn't sure how well it would work. This is going to sound like a stupid question, but are all IBUs the same? I know that boiling hops isomerizes some of the alpha acids, making them more soluble, thereby adding bitterness to the wort and that with a 20 minute boil you only get something like 10% utilization (as opposed to 30%+ with a 60 minute boil). But are the isomerized AAs after a 20 minute boil chemically identical to the isomerized AAs after a 60 minute boil, just fewer in number? Or does a longer boil also result in a chemical difference? In other words is the bitterness attained from a longer boil of a low AA hop the same as that attained from a shorter boil of a higher AA hop? (I'm probably overthinking this).

Quote:
Originally Posted by david_42 View Post
Maybe add some gooseberries with the dry hopping if you don't have any nelson sauvin. Or add a bottle of Sauvignon Blanc at the end.
Really?
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLem View Post
When you say a little goes a long way - how much is "a little". I am concerned with getting enough flavor/aroma while keeping the bitterness down, but if I can cut down on the late additions I'd feel better about being able to control the bitterness with the 60 minute hops.

Can I go less than 0.5 ounce for flavor and aroma?

(I think I'll try dry-hopping with it too - thanks for the idea)
One of my beers using this hop is an all late-hopped amber. I give it an ounce of summit at 20 minutes (about 24 IBU), and 2 more ounces of palisade after. The hop flavor is huge on this beer. It may be too much for some people... but I wouldn't personally back off on the summit.

My other is a beastly red IPA, and I go much smaller on the flavor/aroma summit additions. .25 oz at 20 mins, .25 oz at 10 mins, and 1.5 oz dry hop. That's paired with one other hop which I add double this amount of (except dry-hop, its only summit).

.25 oz additions even late in the boil add lots of character, but its such an interesting tasting hop that surprisingly isn't harsh, so you can go crazy with it if ya want. That's my experiences, hope this helps!
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