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Old 07-02-2009, 07:19 AM   #11
Jun 2008
Poland, EU
Posts: 463
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts

FWIK phosphoric acid has less impact on flavour than lactic acid.

They say, if you use more than 1 ml of lactic acid per gallon, you might pick up its taste in the beer. Well, I used 15 ml and more, with no negative impact, but I guess it depends on beer style and water.

The same is true for acidulated malt, which is basically the same as lactic acid. When I use more than 100-150g per batch, I can taste some sourness it the beer.

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Old 07-02-2009, 02:00 PM   #12
HenryHill's Avatar
Mar 2007
Perry, MI
Posts: 3,040
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts

Yeah, I've seen the statements about sourness and lactic acid, and just by looking at the formula of HCl, it is the better direction to go, for me.

With jut a few ml's, and a pinch of gypsum, I am good down to any SRM I choose, according to Palmer's 'sheet. Since I can get HCl easily and he recommends not using Phos due to the calcium precipitation thing, it's gotta be HCl for me.

I buy muriatic (HCl) at Home Depot for pool use for about 9-10 bucks for 2 gallons, although I'm out and don't recall the concentration. I have heard that some states were not letting it be sold anymore. Rumored terrorist or drug use or something like that.

Really sad.

Checking back to the report on the hot soft sample I sent, I can't use it even in a mixture with the cold water; just too much sodium.
Originally Posted by orfy
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This is HBT of course. Normal Thread that goes every direction but the one intended. This forum should be scientific proof the beer causes ADD

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Old 07-10-2009, 01:13 AM   #13
Jul 2008
Guelph, ON, CANADA
Posts: 75

Originally Posted by Henry Hill View Post
I have a home water distiller, nice one, 3 or 4 gallon tank, auto refill or manual fill. 10 bones in a second hand shop.; just needed the spigot nut tightened inside the tank. Not RO, but I am guessing that distilled is close to plain H2O...

I find a 4 oz 10% phos at Midwest HBS and a place in NY, Niagra HBS, that has 8 oz for the same money, otherwise it's Spectrum Lab Supply... :/

Kaiser, you mention sulfuric (muratic?) acid for adjustment, as it disassociates at 99+, but what about phos for actual gain of H+?

Spine, please send me the Palmer's Mash Spreadsheet that you added phos to; I'd love to see how the adjusted water looks with phos.

I haven't run the second test sample-hot soft tap water. I wonder how that works out-I know the sodium is higher, but the cold is low anyway....
Hey guys,

Sorry i took so long to upload the spreadsheet to the website. I've been really busy with work lately.

you can find it here.

Just a quick tutorial of the changes I have made and how I use the spreadsheet.

1) since I use a brewing software that uses SRM as colour, enter your estimated SRM of the beer you are brewing into L7 and it will calculate the EBC equivalent in N7.

2) Enter this in B8. Palmer has it calculating the limits of the RA for valid mash pH's (I think). I have also made it calculate the midpoint in E8. Pick a target RA within the high and low RA (i always use the midpoint but you might want to adjust if you are mashing with low or high temps to favour either enzyme) and input this into B23 along with the total mash water in C23. Since I am lazy I treat all my sparge water and mash water at the same time, I enter my total volume (strike + sparge) in here.

3) enter your tap water profile into row 15.

4) I never enter a target water profile into row 11, It's not necessary.

5) If you are diluting with RO or DI water, enter the proportion of this water into B19. I like to dilute a little bit because I am not sure what the flavour threshold of phosphoric acid is (i.e. how much can i add before people will start to notice the taste of it).

6) Cells D34 to D36 will tell you how much of each acid you must add to reduce the alkalinity to the desired level. Enter into E34 to E36 how much of each acid you are adding. You will see cell L40 decreasing as you increase the amount of each acid into E34 to E36.

7) If you want to add salts, enter the amount in grams to row 27

NOTE: I think there is a slight error in the spreadsheet. It appears that palmer does not take into account the acid additions when calculating the "Result" water in "Step 7". He seems to only take into account the source water, salt additions and dilutions. I have a feeling he is not doing this because the acid additions will also remove some calcium and this is a little harder to calculate. Just keep in mind that the "result" water is really the water profile before adding the acids.

I have used this particular spreadsheet many times and the mash ph is always coming out close to my target.

I also made a small error and listed the units as mg/ml and they should be mg/L but just the label is wrong, the math is correct! sorry!

Good luck and please let me know if you find any errors!

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