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Old 07-07-2009, 06:55 PM   #11
KingBrianI
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkyaber View Post
Ok, I am going to make this beer this weekend, and it will be my first attempt at an all grain lager. I want to get your decoction schedule correct.

Dough in 18.9 quarts of 102.6F water which will give me about a 97F mash.
Let sit for about how long 60 min?
Remove 11.32 quarts of water (decoction #1) and heat to boiling.
No Protein or Sac rest for decoction?, or for main mash?
Add all the 11.32 quarts of boiling decoction #1 back to main mash to raise temp of main mash to 150F.
Let sit for 60 min?
Remove 7.1 quarts from main mash and heat to boiling (decoction #2). Return to main mash after a short boil.
The temp of the main mash should now be about 170 degrees for mash out.

I have almost the same set up as you do, (15 gallon boil pot with 10 gallon cooler) but I fly sparge. So any technique advice you could give would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, I can't wait to give this beer a shot.
Looks wonderful.

The Enhanced Double decoction is best understood by looking at the diagram in this link: Decoction mash - Home Brewing Wiki

You're correct that you dough in to achieve 97 degrees. But after about 20 minutes, you want to pull your first decoction and let it start warming up. Be sure to let it rest for 15-20 minutes at 133 and 160 degrees as it is heated up. Once it is boiling, let it boil for 10-20 minutes, then add enough back to the MLT to get the temp up to 133 degrees (protein rest). Continue boiling the rest of the decoction for another ~15 minutes, then add it to the MLT. That should get you to the sacc rest temp. It is all easily understood by looking at that link. I would recommend pulling about 10-20% more for each decoction than what's listed. Then only add enough back to the MLT to hit the right temp. Let the rest cool down to that temp, then add it with the rest. There's nothing worse than dumping the whole decoction back into the MLT and having it not raise the temp enough. You can also add some water to the decoction in order to bring the volume up slightly, to offset whatever boiloff you might have during the decoction. Hope this helped clear it up a bit.
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:54 PM   #12
sparkyaber
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I looked at brew wiki and understood it, it was the timing in the O.P. (60 min, 60 min, 15 min) that threw me for a loop. The volume of the mash that you had listed, is that about how much a you used to raise the temp to the next step? So use 10-20% more?
Thanks
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:01 PM   #13
KingBrianI
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkyaber View Post
I looked at brew wiki and understood it, it was the timing in the O.P. (60 min, 60 min, 15 min) that threw me for a loop. The volume of the mash that you had listed, is that about how much a you used to raise the temp to the next step? So use 10-20% more?
Thanks
OK, I see now. Yeah, the times in the OP are a little misleading since they kind of represent the time to the next step, but not all of the little things going on between steps. It's a function of the limited ability to schedule the steps in Beersmith. The volumes listed in the OP should get you close, but add 10-20% plus a little water to be sure. I always end up a little low if I go straight by the numbers Beersmith spits out.

EDIT: I attempted to edit the OP mash schedule in order to better describe the process.
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:21 PM   #14
sparkyaber
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Thanks for your very quick replies. I figured it was the beersmith that was confusing me. I just wanted to clear everything up. I looked at the O.P. and it much easier to understand and follow. I will post back next week to let everyone know how brew day went.
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:50 PM   #15
sparkyaber
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Brewed this on Saturday, man, it seemed as if the day took forever! Much longer process. Everything went well except for when I used the second part of the first decoction to raise the main mash to the protein rest. I added all I had and was still over 10 degrees off. I will remember that for next time. other wise an easy brew day.

Oh, one other thing,
I did have a few changes in the recipe, one by accident and one on purpose.
I used Wyeast 2633 Oktoberfest blend. I figured I would give it a shot. Then I used .9 oz of regular hallerteau and then .9 oz of hersbrucker. Both should have very minimal influence on the final beer.
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Bottled: Holiday Ale, RIS 2011, Chocolate Espresso Porter, Vanilla Porter, Oktoberfest, Mai Bock, Old Vine Zin, Pinot Noir, Chocolate Raspberry Port,

 
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:44 PM   #16
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Did you pull another decoction to get up to mash temp or just leave it? Did you pull an extra 20% for the decoction? 10 degrees seems like a lot. The hop sub won't make any difference at all and that yeast should be really nice.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:38 PM   #17
sparkyaber
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I did not decoct additional mash, I just boiled about a gallon and a half of water and added the water to the main mash. It then reached 151 degrees. I did bump up my decoctions about 10%, I will have to bump 20% next time.

Yeah, we were scratching our heads, because the mash was at 132 when we added the boiling decoction, it had to be about 2 gallons worth.

I did hit my all time high efficiency, 92% to get 1.062 og.
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Old 08-09-2009, 04:32 AM   #18
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I want to try and get this in soon so it can be ready in a few months. So how from mash in to filling the boil kettle?

Going by your link of the Enhanced Double Decoction, it is about 3 1/2 hours for the mash. Is that right?

From your descriptions, it sounds like you start the mash @ 97, 20 minutes in pull a specified amount and warm it up to the point that if you add some back and keep going with the rest to boil, it will raise the mash to 133. After boiling the first decoction more, add it back to raise the Mash again to raise up to the 150s hold and then mash out. Does this sound close.

 
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Old 08-09-2009, 02:08 PM   #19
KingBrianI
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humann_brewing View Post
I want to try and get this in soon so it can be ready in a few months. So how from mash in to filling the boil kettle?

Going by your link of the Enhanced Double Decoction, it is about 3 1/2 hours for the mash. Is that right?

From your descriptions, it sounds like you start the mash @ 97, 20 minutes in pull a specified amount and warm it up to the point that if you add some back and keep going with the rest to boil, it will raise the mash to 133. After boiling the first decoction more, add it back to raise the Mash again to raise up to the 150s hold and then mash out. Does this sound close.
To be honest, decoction mash days are loooong. 3.5 hrs to mashout is probably pretty close. Here's a breakdown of how long it usually takes me per step:

mash in and wait 25 min
pull decoction (5 min)
bring decoction up to 133 (10 min)
rest decoction at 133 for 15 min
bring decoction up to 158 (10 min)
rest decoction at 158 (20 min)
bring decoction up to a boil (20 min)
boil decoction 10 min
add some decoction back to main mash to get to 133 (5 min)
continue to boil decoction for 20 minutes
add rest of decoction (or enough to bring main mash to sacc rest temp) (5 min)
sacc rest (60 min pullin decoction for mashout in last 20 or so minutes)
add mashout decoction back to main mash then continue as normal.

Good luck with it and keep telling yourself the beer will be worth it!
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Old 08-09-2009, 09:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBrianI View Post
To be honest, decoction mash days are loooong. 3.5 hrs to mashout is probably pretty close. Here's a breakdown of how long it usually takes me per step:

mash in and wait 25 min
pull decoction (5 min)
bring decoction up to 133 (10 min)
rest decoction at 133 for 15 min
bring decoction up to 158 (10 min)
rest decoction at 158 (20 min)
bring decoction up to a boil (20 min)
boil decoction 10 min
add some decoction back to main mash to get to 133 (5 min)
continue to boil decoction for 20 minutes
add rest of decoction (or enough to bring main mash to sacc rest temp) (5 min)
sacc rest (60 min pullin decoction for mashout in last 20 or so minutes)
add mashout decoction back to main mash then continue as normal.

Good luck with it and keep telling yourself the beer will be worth it!
So, I'll just get up before dawn and get things started. Actually I did a decoction with my first lager, only a acid rest and then sacc though but still took a long time.

 
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