Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

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3 volumes is fairly safe actually. I've done a lot of reading about the topic, and it seems that most people seem to be seeing bombs at 4+ volumes in standard 12oz bottles. For a bomb to occur at 3 actual volumes (disregarding miscalculations), it seems the bottle needs to be stressed or flawed. For my 2.75 gal batch this was 2.8oz dextrose.

I've cracked a bottle of the cherry graff and it's slightly carbed already. Slight reddish head without much staying power, great tart nose with a smooth, thick, sweet taste to it. The cherries come through strongly. Amazingly good right now, and once it's really ready I think I'm going to have a keeper. For the next iteration I'm not going to alter much, but I'm going to use 8oz carapils instead of the torrified wheat. I might go all-grain too to save a dollar, but it's just going to be 2-row. Going to stick with the 1lb lactose, 1lb caramel 20L, and sucralose at bottling.
 
Hiya,

I'm a newb to some of this so I have a kegging question. I apologize if I missed this in the multitude of previous posts. What is the pressure recommended for this? Would the aging time vary from the original 2-3 weeks? Thanks.

Cheers!
 
Pressure kinda depends on your kegging system. I used the same pressure and temperature settings I would for an ale and let it slow carb for a week and got great carbonation. After it reached terminal gravity, I let it sit for a week, then cold crashed the whole carboy for a week, then left it on gas for a week. So 3 weeks for me came out perfect.

My second batch has been bubbling away nicely since last weekend. Process on page 1, but with different materials:

1lb Caramel/Crystal 90°L
4oz Torrified Wheat
3.3lbs Briess Sparkling Amber LME
4g fresh pressed apple cider
Danstar BRY-97 American West Coast (dry) Yeast

I used Caramel 60°L the first time, but the finish was really dry and I wanted a little bit of malt sweetness in there so this time the plan was to go for Caramel 120°L. Unfortunately, my LHBS was out of Amber DME so I decided to replace all the DME with the single jar of LME above. In the past when I've used LME it always seems to finish higher/sweeter, so I stepped back to Caramel 90°L. I had a huge krausen and a blow off, but that may be due to the different yeast (US-05 vs BRY-97) and 3.3lbs LME vs 2lbs DME.

Smells great, can't wait! :mug:
 
Okay. Thanks!
Whipping up mine tomorrow. Going for the 120L though. LHBS didn't have Light DME so I'm just gonna add all Amber. Maybe 3 pounds of it.
If it's not sweet or apple-y enough I'll stabilize and back sweeten.
 
I'm at day 4 in the primary and I'm smelling the slightest bit of sulfur. Is this something to worry about? Normally I'd be giving the yeast some TLC about now but the recipe seems to let it ride. Let me add that the current fermenting temp is around 66 degrees atm so I dint think that's a contributing factor. Any advice is welcome. Thanks.
 
Wraithraider said:
I'm at day 4 in the primary and I'm smelling the slightest bit of sulfur. Is this something to worry about? Normally I'd be giving the yeast some TLC about now but the recipe seems to let it ride. Let me add that the current fermenting temp is around 66 degrees atm so I dint think that's a contributing factor. Any advice is welcome. Thanks.

I'm at day 3 and mine slightly stings my nostrils if I take a big whiff of my airlock, could be just CO2 but smells a little like sulphur as well. Considering the horrendous smell others have observed from their ciders I'm not too worried about mine, after the initial smell I can smell a fermented tart apple aroma that reassures me. Some have discussed the benefits of yeast nutrients if you're really worried I'd look into that.

Edit: mines been fermenting warmer then yours, been at about 68*F with Nottingham.
 
Wraithraider said:
I'm at day 4 in the primary and I'm smelling the slightest bit of sulfur. Is this something to worry about? Normally I'd be giving the yeast some TLC about now but the recipe seems to let it ride. Let me add that the current fermenting temp is around 66 degrees atm so I dint think that's a contributing factor. Any advice is welcome. Thanks.

Let it ride. It'll subside. I think I had some and it went away pretty quickly.
 
My first batch of this is 14 days out today, checked the gravity and its down to 1.008 from 1.06. Ill check the gravity again, but I think its done. I picked up some gelatin to experiment with, so I am planning on cold crashing the primary for 24hrs so I can salvage the yeast, then racking to the secondary and adding some gelatin. After 48 hours in the secondary, keg it. I would just take it straight to the keg, but I am waiting for the paint to dry on the kegerator tower.

The sample I tried today was pretty good. Nice and smooth. I think once its chilled and on the gas I will really enjoy it.

Has anyone used any Honey Malt in this recipe? I really like honey but have no experience using the honey malt. Does a little bit go a long way?
 
Man, that BRY-97 is STILL going! Still pushing bubbles when I left for work this morning. I get a strong alcohol and apple smell from my airlock, but I'm using vodka in mine. :eek:
Has anyone used any Honey Malt in this recipe? I really like honey but have no experience using the honey malt. Does a little bit go a long way?

I've had no experience with honey malt, but I do think the honey flavor would go well in this. Crispin has a Honey Cider that is pretty amazing, but a little sweet for my taste. Adding honey 48hrs after fermentation has stared rocking and you should be able to retain a lot of the honey flavor and aroma, but the yeast will destroy the sugars.

I'm all in for more info about honey malt!

* Regarding honey in the primary: You also have to trust that your honey is clean. Some people like to add it to the boil, but I've added it to the primary and had excellent results.
 
Well I picked up 5 gallons more apple juice today and the next batch I think I will add some honey malt in with it. Maybe .5 lb for and just add it in with the other grains to steep. After reading some eer threads that mentioned the honey malt, people seem to say that a little goes a log way.

I still have a bunch of 120 and torrified wheat left, so that will stay the same. Might try a different hop as well. I used 1 oz cascade in my first batch.

I am saving my honey right now for either a mead or cyser, otherwise I would add some to this batch. I don't like the idea of adding honey to the boil at all from a flavor standpoint. In my mind it seems like boiling honey would defeat the purpose of adding it
 
If you like a clean, malty, not too tart easy drinking cider style beverage then this is your drink.
11.jpg
 
I thought I'd rather be safe then sorry since those odors can come from stressed yeast. I added some nutrients the other day and within 24 hours the sulfur smell subsided. I don't plan on any other modifications. Kegging system arrived yesterday that I bought for the Graf. Xmas is showing up a month late I think!

Cheers!
 
Wraithraider said:
I thought I'd rather be safe then sorry since those odors can come from stressed yeast. I added some nutrients the other day and within 24 hours the sulfur smell subsided. I don't plan on any other modifications. Kegging system arrived yesterday that I bought for the Graf. Xmas is showing up a month late I think!

Cheers!

Nice! Kegging system just arrived for me too!
Are you as excited as I?
:mug:
 
Honestly...yeah. I've really been struggling to find something that finishes fast but isn't beer. I've got meads aging. I'm out of Cyser. So I'm dying of thirst.
Gonna keg it up on the 18th. And while I have a happy yeast cake, I'm gonna whip up a 3 gallon batch of regular cider for the wife. Probably throw in a pound or two of brown sugar and a few split vanilla beans while I'm at it.
 
Wraithraider said:
I'm out of Cyser. And while I have a happy yeast cake, I'm gonna whip up a 3 gallon batch of regular cider for the wife. Probably throw in a pound or two of brown sugar and a few split vanilla beans while I'm at it.

So I can reuse the yeast cake on the bottom of a carboy? Does it leave any weird flavors? And what is cyser?
 
So long as your yeast were healthy the first time around you can use them again. If they compliment the second batch that is. You can even take measures to store it for later use. This is true for most beer yeasts (I'm using Nottingham atm) but I have not tried with wine yeasts.

Cyser is a mead cider hybrid. I believe technically speaking 50% of the fermentable sugar must come from honey.
 
If I do one batch, I'll usually end up doing a second when the first one is out of the bucket, just because it's ready to take off!
 
I haven't read all 100+ pages, so maybe someone already mentioned this. I made this about 10 months ago, but I recently found 10 bottles in my cellar that I had forgotten about. I liked it before, but wow! Crisp, dry and refreshing. It's also crystal clear, whereas my young graff was a bit cloudy. In general, it was just smoother than when it was young.

You may want to age a few bottles from each batch, it's worth it.
 
Yeah I agree. Intent of this recipe was apparently to have quicker to drink cider, but surprise it's way better after it ages.
 
LeverTime said:
You may want to age a few bottles from each batch, it's worth it.

I have read most of it and I've been wondering how it improves long term so thanks of the input I have some fermenting. I'll stash a case somewhere for..dare I say a year?
 
Alright. Graf is in the keg. Smelled awesome. Crisp and sweet up front with a nice malty body. Little hot on the back end right now, but hopefully that will settle in a week or two.
 
I brewed my umpteenth batch of this the other day using Amarillo hops, 8 oz of lactose to backsweeten, and a starter of Belgian Abbey yeast to try and throw some estery/fruity flavors into the mix. Everyone always loves this stuff no matter what I make it with lol. :D I basically have a dedicated keg to this in the kegorator.

I've found that s05/notty tends to get too dry/tart for my tastes on this, S04 has been used for the last several batches with (IMO) better results. We will see if the honey side of the amarillo comes through this time. I usually use Chinook for a good spicey/earthy side. Will be different for sure with the belgian abbey yeast!

-Steve
 
My first batch of this has been in the bottles a couple weeks now,even this young in the bottle it is very good.I will have to make this again.
 
Just tapped my first keg and first batch of Graff today. Overall it is very good. I sampled it before pitching, at the two day mark, the week mark, two week mark and then again today-24 days since brew day. It has really come a long ways. Very smooth and easy to drink. I would have to check on the gravity readings, but I do not taste any alcohol bit from it.

Few thoughts on the next batch--

-I will probably go with atleast 2 oz of torrified wheat. One because I have a lot of it, and two I find myself pouring a glass and hitting the top with the creamer on the perlick to get a little more
-Pilsner DME instead of Light-I use the pilsners in my lemonades, and have really come to like them
-Adding some Honey Malt in with the steeping grains. Havent decided how much yet-probably .5lbs (ish) I think a little honey flavor on the back end would be awesome with this cider.
 
I just pitched some English ale yeast on a batch with the following changes:

_hole foods had pasteurized Non-filtered AJ in Glass gallon jugs (going to re-purpose those) buy 4 and you get a 10% discount case price. ($32 total)
added a rounded 1/2 ts. Pectic enzyme to each jug.

Added 4 oz. Honey malt to the 1 oz. Torrified Wheat, 8 oz. C-60
adjusted ph of steep/sparge water w 1 ts. Acid blend.

used 1 lb. 14 oz. Amber DME I had on hand.

14 g. 7.5% Mt. Rainier hops

S.G. 1.060/60° overshot the chill!

in 6 G pail TBD where it goes from there, though I intend to save the bulk for Autumn 2013

TY to the OP Brandon for the base recipe!
 
Just pitched my first batch, cascade hops and 2 oz of torrified wheat. took my OG reading and drank the sample and it already tasted amazing, I cant wait to drink this! I should start making the next batch in about two weeks.
 
Brewed a batch this weekend. First time so Im excited to try it. Went by the recipe on the OP exactly.

Had airlock activity within 3 hours and this morning had >1 burp per second.

Already wish it was 2 weeks from now. :D
 
Hate to show my 'newb-ness' but is Crystal 60L the same as Crystal (Cara Munich I) Malt or Crystal (Cara Munich III) Malt becuase that's all that shows up when I search my LHBS website.
 
Hate to show my 'newb-ness' but is Crystal 60L the same as Crystal (Cara Munich I) Malt or Crystal (Cara Munich III) Malt becuase that's all that shows up when I search my LHBS website.

CaraMunich I ~39°L
CaraMunich II ~45°L
CaraMunich III ~57°L would be closest to Crystal 60°L

according to one of the supporting vendors website:
http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Weyermann-CaraMunich-III--%28by-the-pound%29.html

You may find this chart as handy as I do:
http://www.onebeer.net/grainchart.html

RJ
 
Seems that i'm hogging this thread, I purchased so for head retention a while back (from RJ Spagnols called heading powder and it contains: polypropylene alginate), can I use this instead of the Torrified wheat?
 
Totally doing this this weekend!
Checked with my LHBS for ingredients, when I said it was for a Graff, they said 'Oh sure, we've got that all here, 'cept the wheat but we've got carapils'.
 
Anyone ferment this stuff at lower temps? I just realized I've been fermenting my latest batch at 59 for the past three days. It's bubbling, so the yeast are doing their thing, I'm curious how this will affect the taste.
 
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