National Homebrew Day Giveaway - Enter Now - Weekend Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Opinions on yeast and water profile for Biere de Garde?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-21-2009, 06:08 PM   #1
hexmonkey
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hunterdon County, NJ
Posts: 381
Liked 12 Times on 10 Posts

Default Opinions on yeast and water profile for Biere de Garde?

I'm planning to brew an AG Biere de Garde from the recipe in Brewing Classic Styles. The book does mention what yeasts to use, but I cultured some yeast from the dregs of a bottle-conditioned commercial Biere de Garde - Cuvée des Jonquilles.

This is ideally going to be served at a French-themed dinner party in September, so I probably don't have time to brew a test batch. My question is, would you use the cultured yeast, or buy some instead?

Also, the book doesn't mention anything about water profiles. I have highly alkaline water (pH 8.0 and 172 ppm Bicarb) so I'll probably be either diluting or starting from scratch with RO/distilled. Anyone have any suggestions of what to shoot for?
hexmonkey is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 06:15 PM   #2
Reverend JC
2500 gallons year to date
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Reverend JC's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Your Mom's
Posts: 1,883
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

I would not use the dregs unless i knew it was the same yeast they use to ferment as the one they use to carbonate. A lot of the time it is a different strain.

As far as the water goes i do not think it would hurt to cut your tap water with 50% RO, a few drops of acid and some 5.2 buffer. You should be good to go.
__________________
"Just because i don't care dosen't mean I don't understand." -Homer Simpson


http://www.modernmonks.com
Reverend JC is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2009, 06:19 PM   #3
hexmonkey
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hunterdon County, NJ
Posts: 381
Liked 12 Times on 10 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend JC View Post
I would not use the dregs unless i knew it was the same yeast they use to ferment as the one they use to carbonate. A lot of the time it is a different strain.
Not sure why they'd bother. Seems like more work to me...

Quote:
As far as the water goes i do not think it would hurt to cut your tap water with 50% RO, a few drops of acid and some 5.2 buffer. You should be good to go.
I've had trouble before with a very harsh hops character from the bicarb, even though I adjusted the pH to ~6 with phosphoric acid. I didn't cut it 50% though, maybe that in addition to the acid would do it...
hexmonkey is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 02:29 AM   #4
hexmonkey
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hunterdon County, NJ
Posts: 381
Liked 12 Times on 10 Posts

Default

is there anyplace I should look, perhaps, for suggested water profiles for different beers? I don't see any french cities in Palmer's book...
hexmonkey is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2009, 03:04 PM   #5
Reverend JC
2500 gallons year to date
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Reverend JC's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Your Mom's
Posts: 1,883
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

other than a google search I am not sure where to look for french cities. And, yes, cutting the water will cut your bicarbs and take away that harshness you are getting from the hops. You know, on that beer, I would not be afraid to cut it with 75% RO. I typically will cut my czech pils with 90% but that then makes it super soft.

edit: I forgot to mention the reason they use a different yeast at bottling. It is so no one can steal the strain. Some breweries are very secretive about their yeast and want no one to have it, unless white labs or wyeast pays them for its use.
__________________
"Just because i don't care dosen't mean I don't understand." -Homer Simpson


http://www.modernmonks.com

Reverend JC is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 03:25 AM   #6
mochaporter
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Cedar Mill, OR
Posts: 13
Likes Given: 1

Default

Sorry to resurrect the thread, but this is the only search result I can find for anybody culturing Cuvée des Jonquilles yeast up from a bottle. To the OP, did you ever end up using that yeast?
__________________
A face for radio and a voice for writing.

Myers Fermentation Project
mochaporter is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 04:10 AM   #7
vehicle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 16
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Not the OP, but I searched "jonquilles" because I just finished a batch with yeast cultured from this beer. It's still carbonating, but all the samples have been superb: fruity, floral, lightly tart and funky with a solid malty BdG base. Seems like it could crossover as a saison yeast. Without even trying the finished product yet, I can already say this might be the best beer I've made. The recipe I used was:

5 gallon batch

9 lbs Belgian Pilsner
.75 lbs Flaked Wheat
.75 lbs Golden Naked Oats
.5 lbs Belgian Aromatic Malt

20 min
.5 oz Crystal
.5 oz Tettnanger
.5 oz Santiam
10 min
.5 oz Crystal
.5 oz Tettnanger
.5 oz Santiam
5 min
Whirlfloc
0 min
1 oz Crystal
1 oz Tettnanger
1 oz Santiam

OG 1.051
FG 1.010

I mashed at 150 for an hour, pitched at 68 and slowly let it rise to 76 over two weeks and rest there for one more week. Total of 3 weeks in primary and 9 weeks in secondary. High perceived attenuation at ~80%. During fermentation I smelled some sulfur and a fair amount of candy/fruity Belgiany esters. Tons of awesome floral/fruity hop aroma. Unusually, this appears to be a top cropping yeast so I froze some of it and hope to make this my standard farmhouse yeast. The long lagering period plus the whirlfloc in the boil and isinglass in the secondary made for a fantastically clear and beautiful beer. I bottled one gallon with some Brett C to condition for a few months, and set one gallon aside to sour on one cup of First Blush Cabernet Savignon grape juice and the dregs from Crooked Stave's Surrette. I'll post again after a proper tasting, and I'll check back to see if anyone else ever revisits this thread.
vehicle is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 04:54 AM   #8
vehicle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 16
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Update. The regular version is just as good as suspected. The "funk" is a light mustiness which I have found elusive in other farmhouse strains. I like the aromatic malt but I think for a second attempt at a Biere de Garde I will boost it and/or add some supplementary specialty grains and adjuncts. I will probably also try this strain with an all pils/wheat grainbill for a Saison.
vehicle is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 09:50 PM   #9
Wortimer75
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Did you re-brew???

Hi Vehicle,

I tried Cuvee Des Jonquilles over the weekend and was blown away. What a great beer. I found your post and was curious if you brewed this recipe again? Have you found any other commercially available yeasts that compare?

Cheers
Wortimer75 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 08:23 PM   #10
vehicle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 16
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

This is a very expressive strain, and the closest I've found to it is the Dupont saison strain available from both Wyeast and White Labs, although this didn't dry out as much. The difference is in the funk, CDJ strain produces an earthy, woodsy, musty basement funk in addition to some more traditional Belgian spice and a little less bright citrus and fruit than the Dupont. The White Labs French Ale yeast is very subdued by comparison, although it does make a nice malty beer with some subtle esters.

If you have a chance to get another bottle of the Cuvee it's well worth culturing. Just this summer I've rebrewed this as a saison with 9 pounds pils 1 pound wheat and it promises to be superb when it carbonates fully. The yeast woke up healthy from its long nap and fermented vigorously after a a big starter on the stir plate.
vehicle is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Critique this Biere de Garde JeffNYC Recipes/Ingredients 2 11-11-2010 12:25 PM
What is your yeast of choice for Biere de Garde? Tonedef131 Recipes/Ingredients 16 09-18-2009 01:05 AM
Biere de Garde? cellardoor Recipes/Ingredients 2 08-11-2009 11:21 AM
2nd AG Biere de Garde EinGutesBier All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 8 07-31-2009 08:18 AM
Day 9 of the Biere de garde..SG question... Beernewb Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 10-29-2008 02:29 AM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS