First Wort Hopping: To replace which addition - Home Brew Forums

Register Now!
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > First Wort Hopping: To replace which addition

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-18-2009, 06:37 AM   #1
mezman
Recipes 
 
Jan 2006
Broomfield, CO
Posts: 106


OK, I'm starting my Oktoberfest tomorrow and I've been thinking about using a FWH with it. I've been reading everything I can find about it but it's still not clear to me which addition I should move forward to the FWH. I've read some folks who say to move your late additions forward to the FWH. Others seem to say that since you get 10% more IBUs than a 60 minute boil, to move your bittering addition forward to a FWH. So I'm confused.

My hop schedule currently looks as such:

60min - 1oz Tettang
20min - 1oz Tettang
10min - 1oz Hallertauer

I've put all that into beersmith and it guesstimates that I'll have 31 IBUs. If I change my last addition, the Hallertauer, to a FWH, Beersmith says I'll have 40 IBUs! That seems like a lot for an Oktoberfest.

If I just make the 60min addition a FWH instead, that keeps the calculated IBUs about where I want them and makes the most intuitive sense to me since the hops will be in the boil for a full 60 minutes anyway but most of the advice I read seem to say otherwise.

So...help?
__________________
Bah!! Who said that??

On Deck:
Primary 1: Kennedizzle Seasonal (Irish Red for St. Paddy's Day)
Secondary:
Keg 1: Cascade APA
Keg 2: Munchner Helles
Keg 3: Nada

Shameless Self Promotion:

Kennedy Photography

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2009, 06:44 AM   #2
pompeiisneaks
Why that human mask?
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
pompeiisneaks's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2009
Redmond, WA
Posts: 852
Liked 52 Times on 29 Posts


From what I understand, and do, is replace the full boil hop (bittering) as the fwh. I.e. Like your second case. Anyone do different?

Edit: that way you get that hops flavors in the hot wort, that isn't yet boiling, and then get bittering as well
__________________
~Phil
Fermenting/Kegged/Bottled NONE :( I moved to the NW and haven't had time to setup my brew rig since! (but hey, I'm in the Pacific NW so there's so much awesome beer I don't need to brew it as much hah!


 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2009, 07:13 AM   #3
Denny's Evil Concoctions
Grande Megalomaniac
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Denny's Evil Concoctions's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2005
West Kelowna BC, Canada
Posts: 7,733
Liked 67 Times on 53 Posts


You should get a 10% ibu increase (debateable) AND flavor from a FWH. Bitterness tends to be a bit more mellow, and you get flavor and some aroma. I haven't done this with whole hops so aroma may also be more predominate than I noticed

Since you are using tett for bitter and flav, I'd use beersmith etc to figure out your FWH and use enough to get you the same IBU's.

Your going to have to wing it till you get a feel for FWH. I don't think anyone really completely understands how/why FHW'ing actually works.
__________________
I may not be an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express........ 6 months ago.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/denn...9/#post1766281

http://groups.homebrewtalk.com/Tapro...ook_Repository

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2009, 11:21 PM   #4
mezman
Recipes 
 
Jan 2006
Broomfield, CO
Posts: 106

Well, I just used the FWH to replace the 60 min boil addition. We'll see how it went in September!
__________________
Bah!! Who said that??

On Deck:
Primary 1: Kennedizzle Seasonal (Irish Red for St. Paddy's Day)
Secondary:
Keg 1: Cascade APA
Keg 2: Munchner Helles
Keg 3: Nada

Shameless Self Promotion:

Kennedy Photography

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2009, 11:51 PM   #5
planenut
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
 
planenut's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2008
Hanahan, SC (North Charleston)
Posts: 536
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts


I thought they worked more like a 20 minute addition but don't hold me to that. In addition, I don't think beersmith treats it that way, It just seems to consider it being there longer and increasing IBU's.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 12:02 AM   #6
foxtrot
Recipes 
 
Jul 2007
Arvada, CO
Posts: 132

Woohoo! another CO front-ranger brewing during the "spring storm"! Only drizzle in Arvada today, had to boil in the garage...

I did an ESB today, FWH with 1 oz. Goldings, then added NB at 60 & 50 minutes, followed by more Goldings every 10 minutes to FO. (BU:GU = 0.84). I like to add hops throughout the boil as it lends a nice hop profile, in addition to FWH. Dry hop, too. Get as much hop flavor as you can, I say!

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 12:13 AM   #7
Denny's Evil Concoctions
Grande Megalomaniac
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Denny's Evil Concoctions's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2005
West Kelowna BC, Canada
Posts: 7,733
Liked 67 Times on 53 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by planenut View Post
I thought they worked more like a 20 minute addition but don't hold me to that. In addition, I don't think beersmith treats it that way, It just seems to consider it being there longer and increasing IBU's.
There's nothing in beersmith to calculate aroma or flavor anyway.
__________________
I may not be an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express........ 6 months ago.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/denn...9/#post1766281

http://groups.homebrewtalk.com/Tapro...ook_Repository

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 08:26 AM   #8
RayInUT
Recipes 
 
Nov 2008
Draper, UT
Posts: 446
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts


All I know is that my beers come out better when I FWH. Sometimes I skip the bittering and Do a FWH; other times, like tonight, I do both. I've noticed that I don't need to dry hop if I FWH.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 11:55 AM   #9
The Pol
Recipes 
 
Feb 2007
Posts: 11,454
Liked 96 Times on 81 Posts


Everything I have read, and done, only moves up the late addition hops to FWH. It does NOTHING to the bittering hops. It doesnt replace anything, when I brew, or from tjhe research I have done. It simply MOVES the late addition hops to FWH. I have never read any FWH article that states to remove the bittering addition with FWH. In fact, everything I have read also states that you should be using LOW AA and/or NOBLE hops in the FWH addition. IF this is so, then that precludes the use of many "bittering" hops.

Noble hops are GREAT for FWHing, so take those Hallertau and move them up to FWH, leave the rest the same, IMHO. It may say you have 40IBU, but I can pretty much guarantee it wont taste like it. The flavor of a FWH is much different than a typical bittering addition.

In most brewing software you can adjust the utilization for FWHing, in ProMash I have it set equal to a 20 minute addition. If i don't, it gives me some crazy IBU figure and my beers are never that bitter. They are full of hop flavor, but not that bitter.


 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 06:51 PM   #10
Denny
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Recipes 
 
Jun 2005
Eugene, OR
Posts: 4,758
Liked 644 Times on 462 Posts


+1 to The Pol. FWH typically uses your flavor (or 20 min. addition) as FWH. HOwever, there's no reason to limit FWH to only low AA or noble hops. I've done many FWH batches with high alpha American hops and it works great. Although tests I've had done show FHW to yield 10% more IBU than an equal 60 min, addition, the beer doesn't taste as bitter. For that reason, I also set Promash to equal a 20 min. bitterness from FWH.
__________________
Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - "Homebrew All Stars" now shipping!

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First Wort Hopping vs Mash Hopping Evan General Techniques 4 07-18-2008 11:13 AM
Alpha Acids / Late addition or Dry Hopping AnOldUR General Techniques 1 06-08-2008 10:54 PM
First wort hopping and mash hopping Dr_Deathweed General Techniques 4 03-18-2008 02:41 PM
All late addition hopping.... jay29 Extract Brewing 1 09-23-2007 09:45 PM
Mash Hopping & First Wort Hopping texasgeorge All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 6 01-14-2007 06:22 PM


Forum Jump