Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Why isn't an Iodine test the "defacto" standard for mash time?
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:16 AM   #21
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lol I just use my idophore..... man a bottle of that goes a LONG way...

I have some white ceramic plates I just grab one of them pull a little shot of clear wort(I heard you gotta be carefull because grain husk and particals will cause it to react) put it on the plate and use a peice of plastic to dip in the idophore and let a drop land in the wort sample watch it spread out and look for any black flash


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Old 04-23-2009, 04:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
lol I just use my idophore..... man a bottle of that goes a LONG way...

I have some white ceramic plates I just grab one of them pull a little shot of clear wort(I heard you gotta be carefull because grain husk and particals will cause it to react) put it on the plate and use a peice of plastic to dip in the idophore and let a drop land in the wort sample watch it spread out and look for any black flash
Thats exactly what I do too. Seems to work so far.


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Old 05-03-2009, 11:35 AM   #23
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Here is a thread I came across that had an interesting post by 'Cargill Malt' (post #19 in that thread).

In that post Cargill Malt states:
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That being said, 60 minutes is a very long conversion rest. The goal of the conversion rest is to suficiently break down the starch to get your desired wort carbohydrate profile, and to move along as soon as possible. There are deleterious effects of long conversion rests. An elucidation of these evils is beyond the scope of this post, but think about extracting lipids and polyphenols from malted barley husk. Long term stability and flavor (astringency) issues.
What are these 'deleterious effects'?

In any case, I'm brewing a Sticke Alt today and I'm gonna try a very short version of the temp-ramp mash mentioned at the end of that thread (posted by Larry). Dough-in to rest @ 144 for 5 min, ramp to 158 over 20 min, rest @ 158 for 5 min, test for conversion, mash-out @ 168. It's mostly a 1:1 mix of Pils:Light Munich with a little Caramunich and a tiny bit of Carafa Special II.

Should one of the (possibly overlooked?) benefits of crushing your own grain and getting a nice, fine crush be that you can shorten sacc rests?
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Old 05-03-2009, 12:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpanishCastleAle View Post
...I'm brewing a Sticke Alt today and I'm gonna try a very short version of the temp-ramp mash mentioned at the end of that thread (posted by Larry). Dough-in to rest @ 144 for 5 min, ramp to 158 over 20 min, rest @ 158 for 5 min, test for conversion, mash-out @ 168. It's mostly a 1:1 mix of Pils:Light Munich with a little Caramunich and a tiny bit of Carafa Special II....
I'm guessing a 30 minute mash tie will be plenty for conversion, but your attenuation will be substantially less.
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Old 05-03-2009, 12:16 PM   #25
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Plus I don't think a mash of 60 to 90 minutes will cause any problems with lipids or polyphenols with a good crush at normal mash temps.

Kai... do you mind if I copy your post and paste it to my club e-mail site?
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Old 05-03-2009, 01:44 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by SpanishCastleAle View Post
What are these 'deleterious effects'?
I'm not sure I agree with the implication made by Cargill that long conversion rests are inherently a bad thing. In the Hochkurz mash schedule, the conversion rests can go for a total of up to 2.5 hours. I think it can be a bad thing if the brewer is not conscious of this possibility doesn't compensate for it. The risk of lipids and polyphenols from the mash can be reduced by good lauter techniques (correct temperature & pH, clear wort) and good rolling boils (hot break).
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Old 05-03-2009, 02:05 PM   #27
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Good read.
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Old 05-03-2009, 02:21 PM   #28
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In the scrambled mash that I possess for brain matter is a fuzzy memory of a thread somewhere on the tubes that mentioned Macros mashing for up to 3 hours, to provide the driest outcome possible.

Just like with low end mash temps, mash times over an hour provide a somewhat drier end result, and can be another variable in recipe to assist in the character of your recipe.

As was stated, for basic high-diastatic grain bills, 20 minutes can be enough to convert the starch, but like conditioning beer can greatly improve flavor, longer mash times can improve attenuation, when it is desired.

60 minutes is the happy medium for generic purpose, and it provides a convenient time period for accomplishing all the other peripheral tasks of a brewday, and you can get in a couple of pints of brew, easy.
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Old 05-03-2009, 02:29 PM   #29
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Just had an idea. If as the Cargill literature states, long rests can extract unwanted compounds from grain husks. I wonder if there would be any advantage of doing a 30 min sacc rest followed by a sparge the same temp as your rest. If you aren't using hot water, conversion will continue during the sparge. Lets say it takes 15 min to double batch sparge. By then you are up to 45 min. Even with a gas burner, it takes at LEAST 10min to get the temp above 165-170 when the enzymes will be denatured.

Of course, the enzymes will be very diluted after the sparge, but they will still be working.
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Old 05-03-2009, 02:40 PM   #30
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The alpha-amylase enzyme isn't fully denatured at regular 'mash-out' temps of 168-170...what is left of it is working in turbo-mode. It's usually working throughout the lauter/sparge and up until you get the boil kettle up high enough to fully denature. I can't find the reference right now...Sticke is boiling. I think I saw it on Kaiser's site somewhere (although I prob mis-worded it).

FWIW, I just finished that short mash and my efficiency was nominal and it was converted when I tested it. I think it was converted before I rested @ 158 for 5 min but I didn't test it then. But as pointed out...the real question will be the attenuation. I will report back when it finishes.


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