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Old 04-14-2009, 11:45 PM   #1
fastricky
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Got an idea I want to try...

It will involve using a different strain of yeast than I brewed with.

I'll wait til fermentation is nearly done, crash cool, and then when transferring to the bottling bucket, add the new yeast.

So the question is: how much yeast should I add?

My plan was to add the entire White Labs vial to my batch (5.5 gallons).

Is that OK? I'm thinking it will be adequate, and that I won't need to create a starter. As well, that there won't be any risk of bottle bombs.

Of course this is mostly speculation... can someone let me know if any of this thinking is off?? Thanks!!

 
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:50 PM   #2
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What do you plan? Use a lower attenuating yeast for fementing, and then a higher attenuating yeast for the carbing?

I don't know how it'll work. I mean, the attenuation levels are iffy anyway, depending on various factors. Say you were planning on getting 70% attenuation with the first yeast, but got 67%. If you added a yeast that is alcohol tolerant (since there is alcohol already present by this point), and attenuated normally at 72%, it might work. But what if it attenated at 80% this time? Or 68%? I think that carbonation would be very tricky, and possibly create bottle bombs.

You might have flat, totally uncarbed beer. Or you might have bottle bombs. I say 50/50 chance of either.
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:01 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YooperBrew View Post
What do you plan? Use a lower attenuating yeast for fementing, and then a higher attenuating yeast for the carbing?

I don't know how it'll work. I mean, the attenuation levels are iffy anyway, depending on various factors. Say you were planning on getting 70% attenuation with the first yeast, but got 67%. If you added a yeast that is alcohol tolerant (since there is alcohol already present by this point), and attenuated normally at 72%, it might work. But what if it attenated at 80% this time? Or 68%? I think that carbonation would be very tricky, and possibly create bottle bombs.

You might have flat, totally uncarbed beer. Or you might have bottle bombs. I say 50/50 chance of either.





What she said

 
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:26 AM   #4
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I have bottled with Champagne yeast with success. I'm not sure if that's what you're after or not. It depends on the style and what you're going for, but a different yeast at bottling time can dry a beer out and give you neat bubbles.
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:35 AM   #5
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Do people even read posts anymore? He is crash cooling the initial fermentation before it is complete. Then, as the bottles are warmed back up, the remaining sugars would then be consumed to produce the fermentation.

In order for you to get an accurate grasp for this, you'll need to have a satellite fermentor, aka a small aliquot in a 1000ml flask or something. Stick this on a stirplate and you should have complete fermentation within 2-3 days. Then, you'll know where your yeast is going to stop. Plan to crash a couple of gravity points above this to stop fermentation.

A problem I see you encountering is getting the original yeast out of the fermentation. Are you going to filter? Once two strains are introduced, it will be tough to really determine which yeast is the one giving the carbonation.

One vial is too much. You want to pitch about 1/4 of the vial for bottle carbonation.

 
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoChef View Post
Do people even read posts anymore?
Um. Yeah. I read the post. I was very concerned about the attenuation rate of the new yeast, whether or not it was crashed cooled before FG was reached. Some yeast strains might not do well being pitched into an already alcohol-rich environment, and that concern (and the attenuation rate of the new yeast) is what brought this to mind for me. What's with the snide comment? I answered as best as I knew how. I don't think there would be an easy, dependable way to do it. I said 50/50 chance of flat beer, or bottle bombs. I definitely haven't done the experiment, but don't appreciate the snarky comment.
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:51 AM   #7
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Hey y'all, I appreciate the passionate responses! :-) It's all good, pretty sure no one meant anyone any disrespect...

So... It's a wheat beer. It should be fully fermented after 2 weeks. At that point I'll crash cool it for a week. Then, yes, will add champagne yeast to add a different texture (hopefully).

So 1/4 vial is all it'll take, eh?

 
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:57 AM   #8
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I'm not so sure this will work. In theory, it sounds ok - use a higher attenuating yeast as the bottling strain to consume "leftover" sugars from the original, lower attenuating primary strain. The problem I see (aside from what Yooper said about not knowing or being able to predict exact attenuations) is that if you introduce new yeast to an environment that is already low in sugars, with next to no oxygen, and a significant alcohol content, you may even shock the yeast to some extent where it is not attenuating as well as you would have expected. When working with such slim margins of error, I wouldn't mess with it unless you are willing to re-bottle (or if you plan on kegging and priming, in which case this would be a good experiment)

 
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Old 04-15-2009, 12:58 AM   #9
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I do not recommend this.

 
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:04 AM   #10
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Yooper, I apologize for the snarky remark.

However, plenty of breweries do this. Russian River, some Belgian breweries, and lots of German breweries did (do?) this (gyle-conditioning) to conform to the Reinheitsgebot. It's not like it's total taboo or anything.

Also, Mike Mraz's interview on The Sunday session covers this where he bottle conditioned with 4 different types of yeast, showing that it does change flavor profiles.


 
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