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Old 04-01-2009, 10:23 PM   #11
malkore
 
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The main question is "was this even an all grain batch?"
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:34 AM   #12
mkade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkore View Post
The main question is "was this even an all grain batch?"
Good point, if it wasn't, then adding Bean-O is even more ridiculous.

 
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:37 AM   #13
homebrewjapan
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Repeating my question from before: Are Beano and Amylase Enzyme different?

I've never used Beano but I've used Amylase Enzyme powder.
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homebrewjapan View Post
Repeating my question from before: Are Beano and Amylase Enzyme different?

I've never used Beano but I've used Amylase Enzyme powder.
It looks like they are different (which I never knew! so thanks to this thread for educating me) beano is alpha galactosidase, which is a different enzyme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkade View Post
Good point, if it wasn't, then adding Bean-O is even more ridiculous.
if the fermentation is stuck because of a very high amount of complex sugars, adding amylase could help to get the gravity lower regardless of whether it was an all-grain or extract batch. some extracts do have a rather high amount of unfermentables. That said, there are other reasons fermentations can get 'stuck' (poor yeast health mostly, lack of aeration, that kind of thing) even though there are still plenty of fermentable sugars left. if that's the case here, the amylase won't help.

you could try a fast ferment test to try to figure this out (basically take a sample of your 'stuck' wort, add some healthy yeast, ideally the same yeast used in the beer, and keep it warm and well aerated (since you're not drinking it, just trying to give it every advantage you can to get it to ferment, off flavors from higher fermentation temps/oxidation don't matter) and see if the gravity goes down at all

 
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericm View Post
It looks like they are different (which I never knew! so thanks to this thread for educating me) beano is alpha galactosidase, which is a different enzyme.
Great. Then I'm ignoring everything I've read about beano and fermenting down to 1.000 and bottle bombs.

I'll let the AE work until FG is steady, meaning it has stopped, and then I can bottle. Might take a while but it will get there.. Thanks. This thread has been an education to me also.
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Old 04-02-2009, 08:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericm View Post
if the fermentation is stuck because of a very high amount of complex sugars, adding amylase could help to get the gravity lower regardless of whether it was an all-grain or extract batch. some extracts do have a rather high amount of unfermentables.
I 100% disagree with that. If fermentation stopped because there is a high level of dextrins and unfermentables, fermentation is NOT stuck; it is done. If an extract brewer wanted a lower level of unfermentable sugars, he/she should have chosen an extract with a higher average potential for attenuation. Adding any type of amylase to a fermenting beer is not only an attempt at a quick fix to a mistake that already been made, it is just asking for trouble. I can understand if an all-grain brewer making a barley wine gets stuck at 1.045 wanting to create a higher degree of fermentability, but I don't see that as reasonable for an extract brewer. If your beer finishes out at 1.020 instead of 1.014 because you got the wrong extract, you live and learn because at the end of the day, stuck fermentation is exactly what it sounds like. It implies nothing about dextrins and unfermentables, and is only related to yeast health, quantity, and other factors related to fermentation.

 
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Old 04-03-2009, 02:26 AM   #17
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> If your beer finishes out at 1.020 instead of 1.014 because you got the wrong extract,

Who says it's because you used the "wrong" extract? What's a "wrong" extract?

If I use a kit which says with DME I should get down to 1.012, and I buy extra light DME after mailing the manufacturer to ask whether it is suitable to be used with that kit, whether I need different yeast from the kit yeast to get down to 1.012, and the manufacturer of the DME replies that it's no problem and THEN the fermentation stops at 1.020, is it because I've used the "wrong" extract?

Apparently some kits are famous for having an improper balance of sugars. What you get isn't always what it says on the tin.

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Old 04-03-2009, 02:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homebrewjapan View Post
> If your beer finishes out at 1.020 instead of 1.014 because you got the wrong extract,

Who says it's because you used the "wrong" extract? What's a "wrong" extract?


Apparently some kits are famous for having an improper balance of sugars. What you get isn't always what it says on the tin.
You answered your own question, if a kit is famous for having an improper balance of sugars then that would qualify strongly as the "wrong extract" to use.

If there is no reliability in the figures stated on the extract then find more reliable extract suppliers because there are probably more problems with the kit than just low attenuation.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontman View Post
You answered your own question, if a kit is famous for having an improper balance of sugars then that would qualify strongly as the "wrong extract" to use.
The kit I used wasn't one of the "famous" ones. It looks to me from reading around and my own experiences now that any kit can be susceptible, especially when mixed with malt extract. From your logic that would make every kit "wrong" and no-one should use them.

Since this is the BEGINNERS forum and many beginners get into HB via kits, to blanketly say they have made a "mistake" and "you got the wrong extract" I think is wrong. You're putting the blame 100% onto the beginner in your reply, and I don't think that's where the blame lies.

Certainly for me, one I finish my current kits, I'll no longer be using kits - not for fermentation reliability but for taste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontman View Post
then find more reliable extract suppliers
Impossible in Japan. Very limited number of retailers, all selling the same products from the same batches. Best you can hope for is good storage.
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:16 AM   #20
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I may have had one too many homebrews to coherently add to this discussion but, it seems to me that there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a "stuck fermentation" actually is.

It's my understanding that a ferment is considered "stuck" when there is considerable amount of fermentable sugars still left in the fermenter and the yeast poop out, or are overwhelmed in some manner, before said sugars are fermented. This in no way takes into consideration unfermentables. (To my knowledge.)

I'd like to think that this is one of those "nut behind the wheel" instances and one should reflect on their own brewing habits and make sure everything is in order before messing with an already fermented beer.

BTW, have we seen a recipe/kit description yet?

 
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