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Old 03-02-2009, 09:47 PM   #1
Donthoseme
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Jan 2007
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So i have heard several different things about souring beers and i would like to know which meathods impart which flavors. Here is what i've heard.


-collect wort and add 1# pale for 24 hrs to sour and ferment with normal yeast like US-5

-sour wort like above but then add bret to secondary after O2 has been used by yeasties.

-collect wort like normal and ferment with normal yeast then add brett to secondary same as above pretty much

-collect wort like normal and ferment with brett in primary (do i aerate wort? i've heard if you oxygenate then it takes away from the brett character.

Please advise as i'm very green at the wild brews.


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Old 03-02-2009, 10:50 PM   #2
squeekysheep
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Jun 2008
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bret works with or without o2, but yes with O2 it doesn't do anything spical


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Old 03-02-2009, 11:01 PM   #3
RC0032
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Chicago
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BB Episode #57 Sour Ales

they added an 8th method...harvesting yeast from a sour you purchase.

 
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:25 AM   #4
JoMarky
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Jul 2008
Albany, NY
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other methods include:

Lactic acid producing bacteria
Lactic acid additions

Acids are by definition "sour"

The brett route is more for funk than sour, if youre trying to replicate an ale you had that was sour/funky, most likely the funk came from the brett, and the sour came from a type of lactobacillus bacteria.

Edit: in your post, the 1st method you mention is actually introducing lactobacillus bacteria that naturally exist on grain into the wort. Personally, I'd get a pure culture and control the infection to your tastes

Is there a particular beer your trying to go after? Different types of infections, and even different types of brett, will impart greatly different flavor profiles.


 
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:01 PM   #5
Edcculus
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Jun 2007
Greenville, SC
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Quote:
-collect wort and add 1# pale for 24 hrs to sour and ferment with normal yeast like US-5
This is best for souring up a bit of beer for something like a Guiness clone. It won't give you characteristics found in a "wild" beer.

Quote:
-sour wort like above but then add bret to secondary after O2 has been used by yeasties.
If you are doing this, you might as well do # 3

Quote:
-collect wort like normal and ferment with normal yeast then add brett to secondary same as above pretty much
This is the most common way for homebrewers. Ferment for a few days to a week with saccharomyces cerevisiae. Then instead of adding just a brett culture, add in a lambic or flanders blend from one of the liquid yeast producers. The blend contains a mixture of several strains of brettanomyces, pediococcus, lactobacillus and other "bugs". Depending on the type of beer you are producing depends on the ratio of these bugs.

Quote:
-collect wort like normal and ferment with brett in primary (do i aerate wort? i've heard if you oxygenate then it takes away from the brett character.
I believe you are referring to fermenting with 100% brett? It can be done, but will not end up very sour. Lactobacillus contributes sourness in the form of lactic acid to wild beer.

 
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:00 PM   #6
brewmonger
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Jul 2008
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Brett does not produce sourness. Just try Orval sometime -- its bottled with Brett, but its not sour in the least. Brett produces "funk", those barnyard, horsey type aromas that make the beer interesting.

If you want sourness, you need lactic (or acetic + O2) organisms. Or I suppose you can fake it with sour mashing or adding lactic or acetic acid, but the result will not be of the same complexity.

 
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Old 03-04-2009, 01:17 AM   #7
Edcculus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmonger View Post
If you want sourness, you need lactic (or acetic + O2) organisms. Or I suppose you can fake it with sour mashing or adding lactic or acetic acid, but the result will not be of the same complexity.
I think lactobacillus is preferred. Lactic acid is much more rounded than acetic acid (vinegar).



 
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