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Old 02-16-2009, 09:44 PM   #1
Jsta Porter
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Oct 2007
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Hello,

Thanks for the assistance.

I am making a Saison with an OG of 1.072 and Wyeast 3724. Using Mr Malty I need 3.63 liters of starter. I checked the gravity after 3 days from initial development of the starter, which had about 2 pints of wort. It is at 1.030. With most yeasts it is down to 1.010 within a day or so. I do oxygenate the wort prior to addition and use yeast nutrients. I have heard that 3724 is a slow fermenter.

Questions:
1. Do I need to wait for the starter to reach lower OG's before additional wort addition?
2. I believe that 3724 likes higher temps for fermentation. Current temps are about 76 degrees. Do I need to raise the starter temps to assist in the yeast development?

Many thanks!!

 
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Old 02-16-2009, 09:50 PM   #2
sirsloop
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What exact nutrients did you add? Some of them kill the yeast if added in high doses (like in a starter).
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:29 AM   #3
Jsta Porter
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Sirsloop,

I added a nutrient that came from my LHBS. It is tagged "yeast nutrient with hulls", so I do not know the exact composition. I have used it in most all previous starters and many a brews. I did not know that nutrient could kill yeast. I added it proportionally to the recommended dosage of 1/2 tsp per gallon.

Side questions- How does the nutrient kill yeast?

Many Thanks!!

 
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:41 AM   #4
sirsloop
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Lallemand Wine - Nutrients

" IMPORTANT: NEVER USE NUTRIENTS CONTAINING AMMONIA SALTS SUCH AS DAP DURING YEAST REHYDRATION - THEY ARE TOXIC TO THE YEAST AT HIGH LEVELS!"
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~~~~~~~~~~~___//_ ____________________________~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~_/ [][]| | /```\/```\/```\/```\/```\ |~~~~~~~~~~
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~~~___/[_]| 00 /| | \,,,/\,,,/\,,,/\,,,/\,,,/ |~~~~~~~~~~
~~|___|___|___/_| |___________________________|~~~~~~~~~~
~~|=(*)[________]==(*)(*)=| \________/=(*)(*)=|~~~~~~~~~~

 
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsloop View Post
Lallemand Wine - Nutrients

" IMPORTANT: NEVER USE NUTRIENTS CONTAINING AMMONIA SALTS SUCH AS DAP DURING YEAST REHYDRATION - THEY ARE TOXIC TO THE YEAST AT HIGH LEVELS!"
That is for dried yeasts, which most (if not all) wine yeasts are. Won't affect a liquid strain that the OP is using.

Back on topic, the Saison yeast is notoriously slow fermenting. Yes, it does like higher temperatures, but for the starter is should not matter that much. You are not looking for fermentation, you are looking for cell reproduction (but it may still take a while). I wouldn't add any additional wort right now.


 
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:32 PM   #6
Jsta Porter
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OK,

Makes sense thanks.

When do the yeast cells actually reproduce, and how will I know if they are ready for more food?

 
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:03 PM   #7
Piotr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsta Porter View Post
1. Do I need to wait for the starter to reach lower OG's before additional wort addition?
2. I believe that 3724 likes higher temps for fermentation. Current temps are about 76 degrees. Do I need to raise the starter temps to assist in the yeast development?
1. Best moment to step up starter is high krausen phase (it takes usualy 8-16h to get there), don't wait to the very end of fermentation

2. 76F is OK, higher is OK, lower is OK. Temp of a starer is not a big issue, generally room temperatures are mostly used.

 
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:34 PM   #8
Edcculus
 
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Don't even worry about checking the gravity of a starter. You aren't making beer, you are making healthy yeast. Jamil's calculator assumes that if you pitch x amount of yeast (determined by how old the pack is and company), it will produce x amount of cells in x amount of starter wort (around the 1.040 SG range) that will be needed to properly ferment a beer of whatever volume and OG you specify.

 
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