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jmitchell3

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Hey there GF Brewers!

Seems to be a dramatic lack of AG GF recipes, so I'm posting here my plans when I brew, hopefully it'll be of interest and possibly deserve some constructive feedback from the more experienced GF'ers among us (for the newbs like me!). I expect to brew this this coming Friday 12/18 or Saturday 12/19.

Planning a GF AG Milk Stout, hopefully to brew this Friday. My ultimate goal is to develope a base recipe that can be scaled up for use in a GF Stone Xocoveza clone.

Starting with a basic, by the numbers milk stout here:

6 gal post boil
70% mash efficiency (made 65% in my first GF AG attempt...changing to a liquid amylase and double crush on the grains, hoping to boost it a bit to 70%)
1.053 OG
1.015 FG
23 IBU
35 SRM

8 lb Grouse Pale Millet Malt
1.0 lb Grouse Buckwheat Malt
1.0 lb Eckert Crystal Rice Malt
1.0 lb Eckert Gas Hog Rice Malt
0.5 lb GF Flaked Oats (probably bob's red mill)
1.0 lb Extra Dark D180 Candi Syrup (added end of boil)
1.0 lb Lactose (added end of boil)

UK Challenger or East Kent Goldings hops to bitter at 60 mins for 23-26 IBU

Fermentis S-04 English Ale Yeast, rehydrated

Also have Eckert James Brown Rice Malt, Eckert Dark Rice Malt, and Grouse Light Roast Millet malt on hand if anyone has ideas on substitutions for a more stouty character. Has anyone used Grouse's roasted millet malts with success? How would they compare to their rice malt counterparts?

Was thinking maybe of subbing 1 lb of light roast millet in place of 1 lb of pale millet for some additional complexity. Big problem so far has been color, I'd like to see 38 SRM but I don't want to add more syrup and I hesitate to reduce the base malt by much.

Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks!
 
Your recipe looks good.
My dark beers have always ended up lighter in color than I would like.
I have often tried to rely on candi syrup to darken them, but dont like the flavor it contributes if I use more than 1lb.
I have never used as much gas hog malt as your recipe calls for, but I think you are on the right track to get that beer dark enough to look like a true stout.

Please post your tasting notes when it is finished.
 
Your recipe looks good.
My dark beers have always ended up lighter in color than I would like.
I have often tried to rely on candi syrup to darken them, but dont like the flavor it contributes if I use more than 1lb.
I have never used as much gas hog malt as your recipe calls for, but I think you are on the right track to get that beer dark enough to look like a true stout.

Please post your tasting notes when it is finished.


Cool legume, thanks for the feedback. Im considering a step mash this time, maybe even a decoction to help with efficiency. Plan to use both bsg amylase and the liquid diatase enzyme as well. My research has indicated a step mash of 104F - 122F - 140F - 158F is ideal for millet when using a decoction to gelatinize starches on up to 40% of the mash. In another post i saw for rice malts 120-131-150-158F. Based on the doc i received from grouse, they recommend 140F for 30 mins, then 156-158 for 90. I have the equipment to do both the controlled step mash and decoction as necessary. Really looking to get a better result than my crazy 163F / 15m -> 150F / 60m -> 155F / 60m mash gave last time. Im inclined to do 122F / 15m -> 140F / 30m -> 158F / 90m this time, with a 2gal decoction held at 163F for 10 mins, then added back to mash at the beginning of the 140F step. Thoughts? Am i making this waaaayyy too complicated?! Id love to hit 75% efficiency if i can, as my mash tun is almost maxed out with these grains at 14 lbs.

Also, im gonna sub the light roast millet for 1lb of the pale, and possibly add 1 lb of james brown rice malt...

Ill definitely post updates as it goes along!
 
If you have the equipment for a step mash, then by all means, go for it. I think you will find that the decoction step at the end is not necessary but I don't want to pull you off your plan. Definitely post your extraction numbers (before adding sugars) as we are all interested in what you get and how you got there!

+1 on not liking the flavor of a lot of dark candy syrup. I would try to get your color from the roasted grain.
 
If you have the equipment for a step mash, then by all means, go for it. I think you will find that the decoction step at the end is not necessary but I don't want to pull you off your plan. Definitely post your extraction numbers (before adding sugars) as we are all interested in what you get and how you got there!

+1 on not liking the flavor of a lot of dark candy syrup. I would try to get your color from the roasted grain.

I'll try a full 2 lbs of dark rice and gas hog rice in the recipe for color and only use the darker syrup if needed.

Cheers!
 
Sounds interesting minus the Lactose which I cant tolerate either but I can tell you that 30grs millet roasted at 450 for 30mins (unmalted grain) will give you a dark roast coffee aroma and when soaked in 212F water tastes the same. Cant wait until you finish your batch.
 
Decided to not do a decoction and to just do a step mash: 122F - 15 mins / 140F - 30 mins / 158F - 60 mins.

Took sample near the end of the 140F phase this morning and color looked pretty good ( see attachment) View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1450545171.960467.jpg

Final malt bill was 8 lb pale millet, 1lb each crystal rice, gas hog rice, dark rice, 1.5 lb buckwheat, 0.5 lb flaked oats. Haven't decided what syrup I'm gonna use. May use clear Candi syrup if the color is dark enough.

I'll post later as I have news!
 
Well my brewday went ok, but the mash went poorly. My firs AG batch done a few weeks ago saw a similar amount of grain, 12 lb or so, and 65% efficiency with an infusion at 163F, then a drop to 150 for 30 mins, and a rise to 155F for 120 mins. Added here an entire bottle of bsg amylase enzyme (5-6x recommended dosage.)

Yesterdays brew saw an infusion at 122F for 15 mins, a rise to 140F for 30 mins, and a rest at 158F for 60 mins. Here added 6 tsp ec kraus diatase enzyme and 2 tsp bsg amylase enzyme. Efficiency was only a paltry 55%. Both mashes used a single crush of millet at .010, rice at .025, and buckwheat ground to course flour in a food processor. Preboil gravity was 1.027 on 7.75 gallons, 6 gallons target postboil. Mash ph was 5.5 at room temperature, so pretty mich on target for style.

Instead of the 1 lb candi syrup, i used 1 lb white sugar instead. OG was 1.047 on 5.8 gals in the fermentor.

Overall, everything went well other than the disappointing mash efficiency. In reviewing my notes, grouse does recommend at least 90 mins at the 156-158F temps which i did not do. Also, ive heard many say they double-crush their grains. Ill plan to do both these things next time, and may consider decocting and resting the separate mash at 163-165F to gelatinize some starches, then add it back to the main mash at the 140 step.
 
My guess is that additional time at the final rest will make a big difference, especially when you have a lot of roasted grain as the roasted kills the enzymes.

I think your rests look really good. I have settled on:

dough in at 117F with enzymes pre-mixed in the mash water
30 min at 125F-135F
120 min 155-160F
So my mash is 2.5 hours (I usually count the temp ramp to the final rest as part of the rest period).

Basically the same as yours but with a longer final rest.

Another thing that I learned from this forum that helps is to have a really good sparge. My final rest is at 1.5 quarts per pound of mash and I split my sparge volume so that I sparge 3 times.

One other thing that I have been doing is rather than trying to hit specific numbers, I just adjust my recipe for the yield I get. It's all in a spreadsheet so if i get good efficiency I just get more volume in the fermentor. Recently I got a batch with crazy good efficiency and I don't think it had anything to do with my process. I think the malt was just way better for that batch for some reason. I suspect there is variability in the potential of the malt we are getting.
 
Like this post.
I will be brewing this recipe below. Chime in if you see something.

Grain Bill,
3.9 Kg Pale Millet Malt-(80%)
450g Crystal 30L Millet Malt (10%)
450g Dark Roasted Millet Malt (10%)
3 TBS Dark Ground Coffee
4.8 KG Grain Total (10.56 LBS)

Adjuncts,
115g (1/2 Cup) Brown Sugar
115g (1/2 Cup) Molasses

Hops,
14.5g (13.2%) Citra (60)
14.5g (4.1%) German Hallertau (10)

Yeast,
7g packet Coopers Ale Yeast

Water
26.5 Litre Pre-treated the day before with
1/8 tsp sodium metabisulphite for chloramine removal and
2 Tsp Lemon Juice for 6.0 water pH level.

Batch Size 19 Liter (5G) Boil Size 23L

Colour 29.4 SRM
Bitterness 34.9 IBU
Efficiency 40%
Original Gravity (1.033)
Final Gravity (1.008)
ABV % (3.21)

I don't have any enzymes to improve my Efficiency and in Ontario finding it hard to get any, so I settle on what I get. In this case I shoot low and might get to 50-60% if the home malt was spot on.
 
I finished with this batch and I can't wait to try it soon. The O.G. was 1.032 with only 10.5lbs Millet which is awesome. I tried something different this time in my mashing schedule. Instead of heating infusion water to the mash to raise the temps to Gel stage I took out the enzyme liquid and then the rest of the mash liquids and boiled that and poured while stirring the mash in. This didn't take it to the 85Cel I was going for but it did hit 76C and started to thicken. I then poured in the enzymes and held for 90mins. The color was much like the sweet stout in the glass. The only thing I wasn't to happy with was the loss in the system and will have to work on that. I was shooting for 5Gallons to the fermentor but only got 3.45 Gallons instead. Oh well it will still taste good.
I don't normally use Lemon juice but ran out of Citric so it will have to do until the order comes in.
 
For a dark beer, like stout, porter, etc. you could 2# of whatever grain, and put them on a stove in a fry pan for 20-30. the heat will cause them to caramelize, then darken. Just keep going until they get to a nice color, dark brown, charcoal black, etc.

I stumbled on this forum subgroup accidentally. I am glad, as I have a friend who is gluten intolerant (not full on, but she avoids gluten), and she has not been able to drink my brews.

I know you guys are trying to to do AG GF, but just my two cents, spending all that time brewing and only getting a OG of 1.030 or so is disheartening. As an AG brewer myself, I would suck it up and pour in a can of sorghum extract.
 

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