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mjap52

mjap52

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First off, this was an IPA that attenuated like crazy.


Recipe:
15# Canadian 2 Row
1# Honey malt

(all pellet hops)
.5oz Columbus @ 60
1oz Centennial @ 15
1oz Amarillo @ 15
1oz Cascade @ 15

Dry hops for 6 days
1oz Simcoe
1oz Chinook
1oz Amarillo


OG: 1.07
FG: 1.013
IBU: 67
SRM: 7

Pitched this on a US O5 yeast cake. It was only cooled to about 82* before fermentation took off, but eventually got down to 68 in 24 hours (temperature controlled freezer).

Here is what the judges said:
Aroma:
DNS and diacetyl dominate the nose. 4/12
Citrus hops at first but overwhelmed by butter and corn. No malt/fruit. 4/12

Appearance:
Clear deep gold with a thick lasting off whit head. Good retention. 3/3
Brilliant golden color. Medium fiz(handwriting :confused:). White head that persists. 3/3

Flavor:
Pale and caramel malt fight to show through the DMS and diacetyl. Low earthy hop. Medium low bitterness. Fisnish is not clean. 7/20
Some malty sweetness, but covered by butter (diacetyl) and DMS (corny) bitterness then no hop flavor comes though. 7/20

Mouthfeel:
Medium body with some slickness from diacetyl. Moderate carbonation. 4/5
Med body and carbonation, astringent. Ok finish. 3/5

Overall Impression:
Avoid DMS by using a full rolling boil of at least one hour. DO NOT COVER THE POT. (I don't). Avoid diacetyl by leaving beer in primary for at least 2 weeks to allow yeast to metabolize diacetyl. 3/10
Good effort but reclaimed off of yeast too soon - diacetyl. Also - if boiling wort coverd can get DMS. Give it another go! 4/10

----------------------------------------------------------------

Got 21/50 overall from both judges.

So I'm guessing for the DMS I need to kick up my boil a bit -- I try to keep it just at a rolling boil, but not too vigorous, so maybe I'll be a bit more liberal next time with the regulator.

For the diacytel, I guess leave it in primary for a couple weeks and not rush it. I only left it in primary for about 6 days before I brought it to secondary to dry hop it.

Thoughts? Any other input or questions on the process?
 
BeerSmith labels 2 row as a Pilsner malt. The Brewmasters Bible recommends boiling Pilsner malt for 90 minutes to drive off DMS. Other base malts only need 60 mins.

I would leave the wort on the yeast longer definitely. Also, consider
dropping the wort temp first, then pitch. Here in texas, I've had to wait 24 hours
before pitching yeast due to hot ground water...
The US-05 specs I see say temp range of 59-75. I'd definitely try to stay in
that range. The lower the temp, the lower the overall Diacetyl level being produced.

Here's to your next entry...
 
Diacetyl can come from stressed yeast. A long lag time, underpitching, and high fermentation temperatures can all contribute to diacetyl. Since you probably overpitched and not underpitched, the long lag time and underpitching wouldn't apply, but probably the overpitching and the high pitching temperature did.

For the DMS, slow cooling could be a factor as could a low boil instead of a nice rolling boil. It could also be caused by bacterial infection (as could diacetyl) so that is another place to look.
 
I would follow the judge's recommendations in the "Impressions" section, and Adam's advice about pitching at lower temps. Starting at 82 and dropping is the opposite of what you want to do--start cool and let it ramp up to the tolerance level of your yeast. You can probably avoid the need for a diacetyl rest altogether if you keep the fermenter in the low to mid 60's from start to finish.

With those two changes, you should drastically improve your beer and any future competition scores. Good luck!
 
A good steady boil for 60 min should be sufficient. Cool the wort quickly and pitch you yeast in the mid 60's. Hold that temp till fermentation is done and then let the temp rise naturally. Let the beer sit on the yeast for a couple weeks before dry hopping.
Yeast health and proper amounts will also help a lot.
Good luck!
 
Thanks for all the tips. Got a lot of good information from this. I'm going to brew this again once my next group buy gets in, and hopefully make a killer brew!
 
You over-pitched, pitched way too hot, and transferred it off the yeast too soon. Correct these things and you will improve your scores dramatically.
 
g-star said:
You over-pitched, pitched way too hot, and transferred it off the yeast too soon. Correct these things and you will improve your scores dramatically.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I should be brewing this again come the week of 10/1, so I'll make sure to leave it in my fermentation chamber a few hours before I pitch (I have a hard time getting it below 80 with my immersion chiller). I'll probably pitch around 68* next time.

One more question, I'm guessing the attenuation was so high for this beer due to the over pitching and high fermentation temperature. I do like my beers on the drier side, so what would you guys suggest as a good mash temperature? I'm going to guess 149-151 max. My cooler generally holds temp within 1 degree over a 60 minute mash.
 
If you like drier beers, definitely 148-151. Maybe even mash longer.
You could also add some sugar to the boil.
 
#1 - Take another look at your sanitation regimen - although there are predictable causes for most off-flavors, when there are multiple (sometimes seemingly unrelated) issues, poor sanitation/infection is often the culprit.

#2 - As has been mentioned, you're pitching your yeast too hot - I've pitched above the recommended temps for yeast a few times and upon later tastings have almost always regretted it. If anything, you want to err on the side of too cool - the activity of the yeast will warm the wort some (and sluggish, cold yeast are better that hot, dead ones).

#3 - Also mentioned, boil HEAVY to remove various precursors - that's a FULL ROLLING boil, just about as heavy as you can get it (ok, y'all with the big propane burners know there's limits....:drunk:), with NO LID. Condensation on the lid contains large amounts of undesirable precursors - be sure to use your lid (both during the boil and during cooling) so that the condensate does not drip back into the kettle. If you have a clean-air area, leaving the wort un-lidded during cooling can help promote some more evaporation of undesirables.

#4 - Ferment within the recommended range, or slightly cooler (for an IPA, you want a more clean flavor profile with fewer esters). Near the end of fermentation (when your SG has dropped about 3/4 of the expected), allow your brew to SLOWLY warm 5-10*F over a day or two for a diacetyl rest. The yeast will be more active at the higher temperature and will do some "last-minute spring cleaning" through your brew. Slowly reduce the temperature back to your original fermentation temp (which will help things flocculate out) for a few days before packaging.

#5 - If you can, check with your maltster on their procedures...if your 2-row is malted Pilsner-style, then it contains a large amount of diacetyl precursors - consider switching all or part of your base grain to a barley that is malted by a Pale Malt regime to make a major nip-it-in-the-bud effort towards off-flavor reduction. If you're sticking with a Pilsner-style malt, then you will need a longer (and yes, more active) boil. Consider a minimum of 90 minutes....120 may be even better.

#6 - Also mentioned above, don't rush to transfer your brew. A week may be enough to ferment out the bulk of the sugars from an all-extract kit, but even the most basic recipes benefit from allowing the fermentation to fully complete and then allowing a further week for cleanup/reduction.

Early brewing instructions basically told you to ferment for a week and then bottle. Those were the instructions that started in the '60s and '70s with a can of extract and an equal amount of sugar. Obviously, we don't brew by those recipes any more, but the basic instruction set seems to have hung around. A burst of interest in brewing in the '90s led to some rethinking of basic procedures and the new thinking involved fermenting for a week or two, then transferring off of the trub and allowing further aging. Another 20 years later, and there has been another major paradigm shift in thinking about brewing (new hops, specialty grains, a plethora of equipment and information) and there is now a fairly unmanageable amount of information and techniques - many of which can be combined and some of which have contradictory effects (and most of which do not jive with the theory of earlier, simpler instructions).

All this means, to currently-modern thinking, forget the printed fermentation/aging times. Work your numbers and watch your hydrometer - when your SG hasn't changed for three days (and the temperature is constant), you can consider fermentation complete. Give it at least another week sitting of the trub to clean up. Before transferring or bottling, taste your hydrometer sample - if there is any noticable off-flavor, now is your last chance to address it. A secondary ferment/conditioning rest/bright tank rest is an important step in commercial brewing (the larger volumes of beer take more effort to clear "bright"), but is currently a source of controversy in homebrewing. Everything in brewing involves tradeoffs - almost nothing is a simple clear-cut solution. Many brewers feel than any unnecessary transfer increases risk of both oxidation and contamination/infection. Homebrewers more confident in both their sanitation regimen and their siphoning hardware don't worry about this risk and prefer to allow the beer time to settle/flocculate in a second vessel without the concern of stirring up the trub/lees (this also allows the yeast cake to be harvested before the beer is ready to bottle). Time spent in the "secondary fermentor" (again, more controversy over naming: is it a "secondary fermentation", a "bright rest", a "conditioning" period, a "reduction rest", etc.) is much more flexible than time spent in primary (this is the point where it is "ok" to forget about your beer for a few weeks). As the fermentation is basically complete, the yeast is cleaning up odds and ends and is busy flocculating the rest of itself out of solution. The "secondary" is the ideal place to add dry hops, spices, tinctures, etc. The addition of fruits, sugars, or fresh wort will turn it into a true "secondary fermentation". Repeat the process of checking your SG, etc. - with the use of fruits, herbs, and spices the final transfer to a "bright tank" for conditioning will be important (the solid matter they leave in the trub/lees can be very bitter, tannic, or have other intensely unpleasant tastes.


For a drier beer, use a protein rest (something like 122*F for 20-30 min) and a low temp for your sacc rest (I'd target 149-150 for 2 hours) - then jump straight to a mashout at 168*F. Boil 2 hours. Replace 5-20% of your mash with simple sugars (dextrose, turbinado, dememera, honey, agave syrup, etc.) to help dry your beer out. Cooler fermentor temps will produce fewer esters/fusels and a cleaner flavor and aroma profile - ferment near the bottom end of the yeast's range if you can (most American-style ale yeasts will create a lager-like profile if fermented a few degrees below the published range at a CONSISTENT temp, although it will take longer). To say too much more of use, it would be helpful to know some more recipe specs, such as your mash schedule, how dilute your mash was, your boil time/temp, etc.
 
sburnt said:
Thanks so much for sharing this. I'm finding the comments quite helpful.
Click to expand...

Cheers! Glad it helped! Check out DarkBrood's comment! Lots of great info!

DarkBrood said:
#1 - Take another look at your sanitation regimen - although there are predictable causes for most off-flavors, when there are multiple (sometimes seemingly unrelated) issues, poor sanitation/infection is often the culprit.

#2 - As has been mentioned, you're pitching your yeast too hot - I've pitched above the recommended temps for yeast a few times and upon later tastings have almost always regretted it. If anything, you want to err on the side of too cool - the activity of the yeast will warm the wort some (and sluggish, cold yeast are better that hot, dead ones).

#3 - Also mentioned, boil HEAVY to remove various precursors - that's a FULL ROLLING boil, just about as heavy as you can get it (ok, y'all with the big propane burners know there's limits....:drunk:), with NO LID. Condensation on the lid contains large amounts of undesirable precursors - be sure to use your lid (both during the boil and during cooling) so that the condensate does not drip back into the kettle. If you have a clean-air area, leaving the wort un-lidded during cooling can help promote some more evaporation of undesirables.

#4 - Ferment within the recommended range, or slightly cooler (for an IPA, you want a more clean flavor profile with fewer esters). Near the end of fermentation (when your SG has dropped about 3/4 of the expected), allow your brew to SLOWLY warm 5-10*F over a day or two for a diacetyl rest. The yeast will be more active at the higher temperature and will do some "last-minute spring cleaning" through your brew. Slowly reduce the temperature back to your original fermentation temp (which will help things flocculate out) for a few days before packaging.

#5 - If you can, check with your maltster on their procedures...if your 2-row is malted Pilsner-style, then it contains a large amount of diacetyl precursors - consider switching all or part of your base grain to a barley that is malted by a Pale Malt regime to make a major nip-it-in-the-bud effort towards off-flavor reduction. If you're sticking with a Pilsner-style malt, then you will need a longer (and yes, more active) boil. Consider a minimum of 90 minutes....120 may be even better.

#6 - Also mentioned above, don't rush to transfer your brew. A week may be enough to ferment out the bulk of the sugars from an all-extract kit, but even the most basic recipes benefit from allowing the fermentation to fully complete and then allowing a further week for cleanup/reduction.

Early brewing instructions basically told you to ferment for a week and then bottle. Those were the instructions that started in the '60s and '70s with a can of extract and an equal amount of sugar. Obviously, we don't brew by those recipes any more, but the basic instruction set seems to have hung around. A burst of interest in brewing in the '90s led to some rethinking of basic procedures and the new thinking involved fermenting for a week or two, then transferring off of the trub and allowing further aging. Another 20 years later, and there has been another major paradigm shift in thinking about brewing (new hops, specialty grains, a plethora of equipment and information) and there is now a fairly unmanageable amount of information and techniques - many of which can be combined and some of which have contradictory effects (and most of which do not jive with the theory of earlier, simpler instructions).

All this means, to currently-modern thinking, forget the printed fermentation/aging times. Work your numbers and watch your hydrometer - when your SG hasn't changed for three days (and the temperature is constant), you can consider fermentation complete. Give it at least another week sitting of the trub to clean up. Before transferring or bottling, taste your hydrometer sample - if there is any noticable off-flavor, now is your last chance to address it. A secondary ferment/conditioning rest/bright tank rest is an important step in commercial brewing (the larger volumes of beer take more effort to clear "bright"), but is currently a source of controversy in homebrewing. Everything in brewing involves tradeoffs - almost nothing is a simple clear-cut solution. Many brewers feel than any unnecessary transfer increases risk of both oxidation and contamination/infection. Homebrewers more confident in both their sanitation regimen and their siphoning hardware don't worry about this risk and prefer to allow the beer time to settle/flocculate in a second vessel without the concern of stirring up the trub/lees (this also allows the yeast cake to be harvested before the beer is ready to bottle). Time spent in the "secondary fermentor" (again, more controversy over naming: is it a "secondary fermentation", a "bright rest", a "conditioning" period, a "reduction rest", etc.) is much more flexible than time spent in primary (this is the point where it is "ok" to forget about your beer for a few weeks). As the fermentation is basically complete, the yeast is cleaning up odds and ends and is busy flocculating the rest of itself out of solution. The "secondary" is the ideal place to add dry hops, spices, tinctures, etc. The addition of fruits, sugars, or fresh wort will turn it into a true "secondary fermentation". Repeat the process of checking your SG, etc. - with the use of fruits, herbs, and spices the final transfer to a "bright tank" for conditioning will be important (the solid matter they leave in the trub/lees can be very bitter, tannic, or have other intensely unpleasant tastes.


For a drier beer, use a protein rest (something like 122*F for 20-30 min) and a low temp for your sacc rest (I'd target 149-150 for 2 hours) - then jump straight to a mashout at 168*F. Boil 2 hours. Replace 5-20% of your mash with simple sugars (dextrose, turbinado, dememera, honey, agave syrup, etc.) to help dry your beer out. Cooler fermentor temps will produce fewer esters/fusels and a cleaner flavor and aroma profile - ferment near the bottom end of the yeast's range if you can (most American-style ale yeasts will create a lager-like profile if fermented a few degrees below the published range at a CONSISTENT temp, although it will take longer). To say too much more of use, it would be helpful to know some more recipe specs, such as your mash schedule, how dilute your mash was, your boil time/temp, etc.
Click to expand...

Hot damn! Thank you for all of this GREAT feedback! I read the whole thing, and I do have some questions for you, but I'm at work right now so I can't spend too much time on here. I'll post again when I get home! :D
 
The recipe as a whole is not bad at all. Though the grist could be a little more complex with less honey sweetness. I would also second mashing low (148-151 F). Additionally, look into using a portion of any of the following: wheat, munich, crystal 10, carapils, corn sugar. You can also try experimenting with different base malts, or mixing a couple. I would also experiment with 90 minute boils, which can do a number of things for an IPA, particularly boost the malt character by increasing melanoidin formation.

The hops:

Columbus is resiny, piney, dank, a little citrusy
Chinook is earthy, grapefruity, a little piney
Amarillo has some stone fruit flavors (peach/apricot) with support from a decent amount of floral grapefruit
Cascade is all floral grapefruit, kind of one note, but unique in its own regard

Know what your hops offer in terms of flavor/aroma. Usually what I find is that the hops added at flameout and dryhop (especially dryhop) tend to dominate the character of the beer. So you want to keep this in mind when you design your recipe, as to highlight certain hops more than others.

Look into Simcoe (pine-fruit), Nugget (peach-herbal), Citra (lychee-melon), or a few of the New Zealand hops for more variety and a different array of hop aroma. I would bitter lowly, (as you did) acheiving only about 25-35 IBUs from the first addition, but then I would follow that up with another small 30 minute addition, 2 oz. at 15, 2 oz. at 7, 2 oz. at 0, and a 10-12 day 3 oz. dryhop. You want to use about 7-9 oz. total for a single IPA very high in hop aroma.

I agree with Yooper on the yeast. The butter/corn trait is usually never a trait of US-05... but it CAN be if it was stressed/underpitched and possibly fermented too high. You want to keep ales like this in the 60's at all times prior to bottling. Another important factor is the time. You don't want to brew this beer, then bottle 7 days later. Keep it in the fermenter for 3-4 weeks total. What this does is it allows the nasty flavors emitted by the yeast to be reabsorbed by the yeast with time. Essentially, they eat oxygen and sugar, turn it into carbon dioxide and alcohol, all the while "pooping" out nasties in the first 3-7 days. These nasties are in a sense "eaten" once again in time, leaving your beer free of those off flavors if the appropriate temp/time/process is followed.

Good luck on your next IPA!
 
To DarkBrood:

1. I'll look this over. I'm getting all new silicone brewing hoses (old ones were getting kind of short), new siphon hoses, and I ordered a gallon of star san :)ban:) in my last group buy, so I'm going to sanitize the heck out of everything. Also, I'm going to force myself to take off my weldless fittings on brew day and give 'em a good oxyclean soak. I need to figure out a better method for sanitizing my auto siphon though...

2. The hot yeast pitch was because I pitched on a yeast cake. I was being impatient. Next time I'm just going to make sure to pitch at 68* degrees and use either washed or a new pack of US 05.

3. I've got a more than capable burner. Banjo KAB6, so I'll be more generous with the regulator. I just hate getting that propane tank filled. I don't even have a lid for my keggle, so I'm not too worried about that.

4. I'll keep my chamber on the low side. Probably around 63 so it'll ferment under 68. Possibly step the reading to 68 on day 6, then 73 on day 7. Day 8 I'll bring it back down to 63 over a few days and let sit for another week and a half.

5. I get CM 2 row in bulk (just got 165#!!), I'll do a little research on it. I'm pretty sure I'll move to a 90 minute boil for everything from now on.

6. As noted above, I'll leave my beer a minimum of 2 weeks on the yeast before moving to secondary.

Other notes: I'm always very careful when going to secondary I purge my carboy and auto siphon before and after racking, and spray everything imaginable with my star san bottle.

I mash in a cooler, so the protein rest to main mash is a little fuzzy to me. Can I just add enough of my strike water to get it up to 122, then use the rest to get to my desired thickness/temp? I'm thinking I'm going to mash at 149, also I've traditionally used a 1.33 quart/pound thickness, but I'm planning on moving up to a 1.5 this week in hopes of upping my efficiency from 65ish.

In the past, my mash has been 1 hour @ 152* @ 1.33 thickness. My boil was very light. I got it up to 212, then just reduced my reg to maintain a low boil. I'm going to ramp this up next time around.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INPUT! I really appreciate hearing such a detailed response from an experienced brewer. I've only been brewing for about 8 months now, so I've still a ton to learn.
 
bobbrews said:
The recipe as a whole is not bad at all. Though the grist could be a little more complex with less honey sweetness. I would also second mashing low (148-151 F). Additionally, look into using a portion of any of the following: wheat, munich, crystal 10, carapils, corn sugar. You can also try experimenting with different base malts, or mixing a couple. I would also experiment with 90 minute boils, which can do a number of things for an IPA, particularly boost the malt character by increasing melanoidin formation.

The hops:

Columbus is resiny, piney, dank, a little citrusy
Chinook is earthy, grapefruity, a little piney
Amarillo has some stone fruit flavors (peach/apricot) with support from a decent amount of floral grapefruit
Cascade is all floral grapefruit, kind of one note, but unique in its own regard

Know what your hops offer in terms of flavor/aroma. Usually what I find is that the hops added at flameout and dryhop (especially dryhop) tend to dominate the character of the beer. So you want to keep this in mind when you design your recipe, as to highlight certain hops more than others.

Look into Simcoe (pine-fruit), Nugget (peach-herbal), Citra (lychee-melon), or a few of the New Zealand hops for more variety and a different array of hop aroma. I would bitter lowly, (as you did) acheiving only about 25-35 IBUs from the first addition, but then I would follow that up with another small 30 minute addition, 2 oz. at 15, 2 oz. at 7, 2 oz. at 0, and a 10-12 day 3 oz. dryhop. You want to use about 7-9 oz. total for a single IPA very high in hop aroma.

I agree with Yooper on the yeast. The butter/corn trait is usually never a trait of US-05... but it CAN be if it was stressed/underpitched and possibly fermented too high. You want to keep ales like this in the 60's at all times prior to bottling. Another important factor is the time. You don't want to brew this beer, then bottle 7 days later. Keep it in the fermenter for 3-4 weeks total. What this does is it allows the nasty flavors emitted by the yeast to be reabsorbed by the yeast with time. Essentially, they eat oxygen and sugar, turn it into carbon dioxide and alcohol, all the while "pooping" out nasties in the first 3-7 days. These nasties are in a sense "eaten" once again in time, leaving your beer free of those off flavors if the appropriate temp/time/process is followed.

Good luck on your next IPA!
Click to expand...

Thanks! What would you think would be a good mix for my honey malt? I really do love the honey flavor in an IPA. This one was inspired by Ithaca Flower Power.

Considering I got a 3/3 on my appearance, I think I'd like to stick to that 7 SRM, but I'm considering using some Marris Otter since I just got a sack of that. If I cut down to a half pound on my honey malt, I can keep it within 1 SRM point of my original.

I'm going to use some of your suggestions in reference to hops, depending on what I can get. I like to keep my bitterness at the low end of the style spectrum so this beer doesn't turn off a lot of people. I'll adjust my initial bittering addition according to my preboil reading and keep it in line with the bitterness chart that BierMuncher uses.

The US05 was severely over pitched, along with fermenting wayyy too high for the first day. I'm going to make sure to pitch around 68, and reduce my ferm chamber to 63 to keep fermentation temperature around that point.

...and yeah... I need to be more patient... I've got a decent pipeline going right now, so hopefully that'll keep me truthful so I can really get a good second running of this sucker! :D

Thanks for all the help! :mug:
 
How do you find these competitions? Do you just mail your beer in? I would love some feedback like this
 
mjap52 said:
What would you think would be a good mix for my honey malt? I really do love the honey flavor in an IPA. This one was inspired by Ithaca Flower Power.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, a lot of stuff you could add really from this list: golden naked oats, flaked oats, white wheat, crystal 10, carapils, pilsener malt, american 2-row, light munich, a touch of acid malt.

mjap52 said:
I'm going to use some of your suggestions in reference to hops, depending on what I can get. I like to keep my bitterness at the low end of the style spectrum so this beer doesn't turn off a lot of people. I'll adjust my initial bittering addition according to my preboil reading and keep it in line with the bitterness chart that BierMuncher uses.
Click to expand...

This is my preference as well. I didn't give you advice for an IPA that tastes like paint tarnish. It will turn out really well if you stay close to your original parameters. More late additions will help though.
 
"4. I'll keep my chamber on the low side. Probably around 63 so it'll ferment under 68. Possibly step the reading to 68 on day 6, then 73 on day 7. Day 8 I'll bring it back down to 63 over a few days and let sit for another week and a half. "

Take the temperature probe and tape it to the side of the fermenter. Put a few layers of cloth or other insulating material over it. That way, your temperature controller will key off of the beer temp and not the air temp and you can dial up exactly what temp you want.
 
I think this is pretty awesome for the whole judging process, suggestions are clear and accurate based on what you said for your process. All in all that sounds like a decent enough brew so do all that stuff suggested and you should be good to go!
 
mjap52 said:
Recipe:

[...]

(all pellet hops)
.5oz Columbus @ 60
1oz Centennial @ 15
1oz Amarillo @ 15
1oz Cascade @ 15

[...]

Any other input or questions on the process?
Click to expand...

I'm a total noob to AG brewing, but I have a question about your recipe.

I see this quite often, and I'm always curious: How did you come up with that particular combination of hops? Why 1 oz. each of Centennial, Amarillo, and Cascade, all going in with 15 minutes left in the boil? Why not just 3 oz. of 1 type of hops? Is it just random? Trial and error? Was there a 3 oz. hops "variety pack" on sale at the LHBS? :)

Can you actually distinguish between the different types of hops when they're mixed together like that? Do they complement each other in some way that's not obvious?

This is the part of homebrewing that seems like voodoo to me - I'm really curious to learn how you guys decide these types of things.
 
kombat said:
I'm a total noob to AG brewing, but I have a question about your recipe.

I see this quite often, and I'm always curious: How did you come up with that particular combination of hops? Why 1 oz. each of Centennial, Amarillo, and Cascade, all going in with 15 minutes left in the boil? Why not just 3 oz. of 1 type of hops? Is it just random? Trial and error? Was there a 3 oz. hops "variety pack" on sale at the LHBS? :)

Can you actually distinguish between the different types of hops when they're mixed together like that? Do they complement each other in some way that's not obvious?

This is the part of homebrewing that seems like voodoo to me - I'm really curious to learn how you guys decide these types of things.
Click to expand...

The best way to learn about hops is to brew single hop IPAs. I have done single hop Simcoe, Sorachi Ace, Citra, Nugget, Zeus, and Sterling. I probably should do some more. You can read about hop flavors but the best way to learn about them is to make a single hop IPA or pale ale, and watch how the flavor changes over time.

Some hops such as Simcoe are so great that they can stand on their own. My single hop Simcoe beat out 27 other entries for a gold medal at a comp. My Citra also got a silver at another comp. Other hops are too one-dimensional. For example, Sorachi Ace just tastes like lemon. If you are going to use one-dimensional hops, you need to use more than one kind.
 
I'd change up the hop timing as well. Mix the three 15 minute hops together, and drop 1/3 at 15, 1/3 at 5, and 1/3 at flameout.
 
WhiteEagle1 said:
This thread has a lot of great information!
Click to expand...

Indeed! I got a huge amount of very valuable information out of this -- much more than I was expecting! I can't wait to brew this IPA again -- most likely at the beginning of next month! Hopefully it'll be like night and day when I compare to my previous version!

I'm def going to be messing around with my hop schedule, I just got 2 pounds of Willamette in a group buy, so that'll probably take the place of my Amarillo considering it's impossible to find right now.
 
usfmikeb said:
I'd change up the hop timing as well. Mix the three 15 minute hops together, and drop 1/3 at 15, 1/3 at 5, and 1/3 at flameout.
Click to expand...

I do plan on doing something like this. There's just so much great information in this thread, my planning process for the next iteration is going to be a long and enjoyable one! :mug:
 
mjap52 said:
Indeed! I got a huge amount of very valuable information out of this -- much more than I was expecting! I can't wait to brew this IPA again -- most likely at the beginning of next month! Hopefully it'll be like night and day when I compare to my previous version!
Click to expand...

Many people like to point out that competitions are a great way to get useful feedback about your brewing. Many don't mention that having that feedback in hand often gives the inspiration to do a re-brew and perfect those skills :rockin: (other styles are always just sooooooo tempting......:fro:)
 

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