Pitched yeast a little high, but it cooled down rapidly...

So when I pitched my yeast it was probably 78 degrees or so. I now realize I should let it cool a bit more in my basement before pitching the next time. The ambient temperature in my basement is 65, and my beers cooled down before bubbling to about 68*.

My question is-- is this really all that bad? I hear the first few hours yeast doesn't start fermenting very vigorously, they populate. Would higher initial fermentation temperatures boost the yeast pop for a healthier fermentation, or am I going to get a lot of banana flavor?

Like I said, there was no airlock activity that went on above 72*. Beers have been sitting a week @ 66-68*.

Will I be okay?

That temperature is actually preferable to yeast when pitching. I don't recall where I read it, however. It will be fine!

A lot of guides say to pitch warm, and then cool it down. The problem with that though is that frequently fermentation will start, generate more heat, and before you know it the temperature has really run away on you. I wouldn't worry about it, 78 isn't too high to kill your yeast, and if you brought it down to 68 then I don't think you will have any problems. In the future I would recommend trying to get your wort down to the 60s, and possibly below your desired fermentation temperature, and let it rise to desired temperature. That seems to be what a lot of more experienced brewers do.

The higher initial temperature will help the yeast wake up faster, but there are much better ways to do that, such as making a starter or just using dry yeast.

What type of beer are you making? You shouldn't get over the top esters below 72, and 66-68 is a pretty good range for most yeasts.

I envy your basement. I live in a studio apartment 5 floors up, so I have to run the AC pretty strong to keep it at 75, much less 65

I'm making a Belgian Double Wit (OG 1.071) and a Sierra Nevada PA clone (1.052). Made 1L starters for both of them.

I've heard others say to pitch cool, so that advice is not universal. In any case, though, those temperatures aren't hugely excessive. 78F is a bit hot, but if it cooled rapidly you should be fine. Wakadaka is right that the bigger risk is getting a runaway heating process, where the heat of fermentation makes it ferment faster, which makes it heat up more, etc., so even if you've got it in a 65F basement it doesn't cool down until after it's mostly attenuated and has produced a bunch of esters. But that didn't happen with you, so I wouldn't worry about it.

JoePro said:

So when I pitched my yeast it was probably 78 degrees or so. I now realize I should let it cool a bit more in my basement before pitching the next time. The ambient temperature in my basement is 65, and my beers cooled down before bubbling to about 68*.

My question is-- is this really all that bad? I hear the first few hours yeast doesn't start fermenting very vigorously, they populate. Would higher initial fermentation temperatures boost the yeast pop for a healthier fermentation, or am I going to get a lot of banana flavor?

Like I said, there was no airlock activity that went on above 72*. Beers have been sitting a week @ 66-68*.

Will I be okay?

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In general, it's best to pitch lower than your target temperature and let the brew warm up to increase activity. When pitching too high and cooling down, the yeast begin to shut down and go dormant, resulting in less activity.

It was once thought that pitching high then cooling was a good thing, but modern brewing practices have been getting away from this idea.

In your case, it seems you caught the high temperature at the right time: before major activity occurred. The first 48 hours of fermentation are critical for yeast and ester/fusel development. Temperature is very important during this time. It seems like you had a nice, consistent temperature once you got things under control though.

Don't worry, it sounds like your beer is going to turn out just fine.

nefarious_1_ said:

I'm assuming this is a hefeweizen since you referred to a banana flavor concerning the high temp?

In general, it's best to pitch lower than your target temperature and let the brew warm up to increase activity. When pitching too high and cooling down, the yeast begin to shut down and go dormant, resulting in less activity.

It was once thought that pitching high then cooling was a good thing, but modern brewing practices have been getting away from this idea.

In your case, it seems you caught the high temperature at the right time: before major activity occurred. The first 48 hours of fermentation are critical for yeast and ester/fusel development. Temperature is very important during this time. It seems like you had a nice, consistent temperature once you got things under control though.

IMO, 66 - 68 is a little high for hefeweizen strains, if that's what you're making, but many people prefer this temperature range over the lower 62*F option.

Don't worry, it souds like your beer is going to turn out just fine.

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No, you get banana flavors if you ferment @ higher temps.

JoePro said:

No, you get banana flavors if you ferment @ higher temps.

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Yeah, I thought that was clear, I was confused by nefarious' comment. If you were brewing a hefe, I'd assume you would be less concerned about estery flavors!

Out of curiosity, what style is it, though?

jsweet said:

Yeah, I thought that was clear, I was confused by nefarious' comment. If you were brewing a hefe, I'd assume you would be less concerned about estery flavors!

Out of curiosity, what style is it, though?

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Belgian Double Wit and a Sierra Nevada PA clone =)

Sounds tasty.

Yeah, I was just wondering, because let's say you did get some esters and such (which you probably didn't), how much that matters depends on the style. My first two batches I fermented hot the whole time. The first was a porter, and it has enough of its own flavor that I don't detect any esters or phenols. Probably someone with a more refined palate could, but it tastes fine to me. The second was a pale ale, and boy howdy, does it taste phenol-y. It basically ruined it -- I still drink it myself, it's not undrinkable, but I'm embarrassed serving it to anyone else.

But, before I scare you, I fermented it at like 75F ambient the whole time. So that was way hot. And, I stupidly used C-Brite (a chlorine-based sanitizer) to sanitize the bottles, and I think I didn't rinse all of them well enough, so some of them even have that horrible chlorophenol flavor -- which makes me wonder if there are some chlorophenols in all of them and that is intensifying the perceived phenol flavor. In any case, the point is, I did everything I could to screw up that batch, and lo and behold I succeeded

jsweet said:

Sounds tasty.

Yeah, I was just wondering, because let's say you did get some esters and such (which you probably didn't), how much that matters depends on the style. My first two batches I fermented hot the whole time. The first was a porter, and it has enough of its own flavor that I don't detect any esters or phenols. Probably someone with a more refined palate could, but it tastes fine to me. The second was a pale ale, and boy howdy, does it taste phenol-y. It basically ruined it -- I still drink it myself, it's not undrinkable, but I'm embarrassed serving it to anyone else.

But, before I scare you, I fermented it at like 75F ambient the whole time. So that was way hot. And, I stupidly used C-Brite (a chlorine-based sanitizer) to sanitize the bottles, and I think I didn't rinse all of them well enough, so some of them even have that horrible chlorophenol flavor -- which makes me wonder if there are some chlorophenols in all of them and that is intensifying the perceived phenol flavor. In any case, the point is, I did everything I could to screw up that batch, and lo and behold I succeeded

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Having been a golf coach for 4 years, I understand very much so that all hobbies are process-oriented rather than outcome oriented.

Having said that, it's good to recognize our less-than-ideal processes and nip them in the bud.

How are your beers tasting now, after a few batches? These were my first 2.

My 5th batch is a summer lemon wheat (my wife calls it a "lemonade beer") and everybody seems to love it. I think I overdid it with the lemon and it could use a little more sweetness, but it is a pretty good start and I am probably going to brew a full-size batch of it later this summer with just a few tweaks to the recipe. The beer itself is great though, no off flavors that I can detect -- I just think it's too lemon-y, but like I say, people seem to really like it.

That is the only batch that is fully ready to drink now. My 3rd batch was a Grand Cru that I got a stuck fermentation on, which I am still dealing with. It's tasty, but still too sweet because the gravity is stuck at 1.030. My 4th batch is a chocolate coconut brown ale, that I had expected to bottle by now, but the cocoa powder made it super-murky and I am still waiting for it to clear in the secondary. It tastes fascinating, though, heh...

My 6th batch is a DFH 60 min clone that is in bottles right now, waiting to carb up. It tasted freakin' delicious at bottling time, though, so hopefully I didn't screw anything up (I might have gotten some oxidation in some of the bottles, but most of them should be fine). My 7th batch is a pale ale I threw together from various leftover hops and DME; it's still fermenting but I tasted a sample at 6 days and it also seems like it will be good. I just brewed my 8th batch last night, a partial mash Blue Moon clone.

Yeah, I got a little obsessive I really, really enjoy the whole brewing process and thinking about and talking about beer. My wife is getting so sick of hearing me ramble on about it, hahahaha...

Anyway, more to the spirit of your question: I felt like it was with my 4th batch that I started to get my process down. The first three, I actually kept making progressively MORE mistakes each time. But now I'm starting to hammer out my process a bit and I feel pretty good about it. The most recent ones, even though I can't say for sure because they haven't carbed up yet, are tasting absolutely great in the fermenter.

Really, the only disaster has been that one pale ale. And I blame the C-Brite more than I blame the hot ferment -- if it was just the hot fermentation, I think it still would have tasted alright, even though the style was all wrong. A few of the bottles have not had the chlorophenol taste, and they just kind of remind me of a weak Belgian that's a bit rough around the edges. It's really hard to screw up beer, as long as you don't frikkin' mix chlorine in with it. :/

jsweet said:

Yeah, I thought that was clear, I was confused by nefarious' comment. If you were brewing a hefe, I'd assume you would be less concerned about estery flavors!

Out of curiosity, what style is it, though?

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Give a read to "Brewing Classic Styles" by Jamil and John Palmer. Regarding Hefeweizen yeast and fermention:

"The other vital key I lacked in my quest for a great weizen was the proper fermentation temperature. Everyone told me that higher temperatures produce more banana esters and fewer clove phenols. Cooler temperatures produced only close and no banana. I tried everything from 65 to 72*F, but then my dear friend Harold Gulbransen told me the best temperature for fermenting this beer was 62*F. I was skeptical that the yeast would even ferment well at that temperature, but the results were spectacular. Along with the proper amount of yeast and oxygen, this temperature creates a beautiful balance of fermentation flavors, helps keep some unpleasant flavors in check, and produces a fantastic beer."

Anyways, when I first posted there weren't any other responses and my assumption was a hefe given the OP's "banana" flavor reference. After I posted, 5 others appeared before mine and the style was already revealed, so I edited. Evidently too late because someone responded to the original post.

Like I said, everyone has their preferred temp, but after taking Jamil's advice I must say I prefer the nice banana/clove balance (true Bavarian weizen style) over the banana-blast version that results from a higher fermentation temp (over 65*F) that just about all American weizens have.

There are actually a lot of threads on here regarding this. Check them out.


But, back on topic...

jsweet said:

Sounds tasty.

Yeah, I was just wondering, because let's say you did get some esters and such (which you probably didn't), how much that matters depends on the style. My first two batches I fermented hot the whole time. The first was a porter, and it has enough of its own flavor that I don't detect any esters or phenols. Probably someone with a more refined palate could, but it tastes fine to me. The second was a pale ale, and boy howdy, does it taste phenol-y. It basically ruined it -- I still drink it myself, it's not undrinkable, but I'm embarrassed serving it to anyone else.

But, before I scare you, I fermented it at like 75F ambient the whole time. So that was way hot. And, I stupidly used C-Brite (a chlorine-based sanitizer) to sanitize the bottles, and I think I didn't rinse all of them well enough, so some of them even have that horrible chlorophenol flavor -- which makes me wonder if there are some chlorophenols in all of them and that is intensifying the perceived phenol flavor. In any case, the point is, I did everything I could to screw up that batch, and lo and behold I succeeded

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Glad someone else agrees regarding the phenols at the higher temps. This is true for a lot of beers, including weizens which was the point I was trying to make.