Specialty IPA: Black IPA Darth Vader - Black IPA

brevity said:

Apparently Carafa III is the darker roast vs Carafa II. I'll see if I can find any. As far as flavor difference, will I just get a lot more roastiness?

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None of them should impart too much roastiness if used correctly.

Well I called my LHBS and the darkest dehusked malt they carry is midnight wheat. No Blackprinz or Carafa III. I'll be subbing the carafa II in this recipe for midnight wheat, we'll see how it goes!

I use midnight wheat in my black IPA. It is wonderful.

Yes, I would definitely use midnight wheat over carafa in this.

Just FYI: the same malts, including Carafa II and Special Roast, where used in Widmer Brothers W'10 Pitch Black IPA. Pitch Black won the Beer World Cup. Nobody thought it wasn't dark enough. My Darth Vader is about the same color as my Stouts. And who cares about the color anyway, the Beer Color Police is not gonna get you, trust me. For me taste is what matters.

A bit of a newb question, what is "special roast"?

bigbeer said:

A bit of a newb question, what is "special roast"?

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It's a specialty malt, giving a deep biscuity and aromatic flavor. Used sparingly it's pretty unique.

I brewed a 2.5 gallon variation of this today. Subbing the carafa for midnight wheat and the special roast for victory. I pitched my first starter (us-05) and it was probably way too big for this beer. It's already bubbling after 1 hour.

I have a beginners question here: If I use the receipt for 5.5 gallon, does that mean that I should extract 5.5 gallon of wort from that amount of grain used in the mash?

How much can I expect to remain after the cooking and fermentation is finished?

CodeDaemon said:

I have a beginners question here: If I use the receipt for 5.5 gallon, does that mean that I should extract 5.5 gallon of wort from that amount of grain used in the mash?

How much can I expect to remain after the cooking and fermentation is finished?

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No. You should be extracting more than 5.5gal of wort for a 5.5gal batch. Not every system is the same, so depending on your system will need a preboil volume of anywhere from 6.5-7+gal. I brew inside on a gas range and I end up boiling off a little less than 1gal. My buddy brews outside on a big propane burner and boils off closer to 1.5gal.

BTW, this is a KILLER recipe. I bottled up some Darth a couple months ago and it just keeps getting better and better. I did an add an extra oz of cascade in the dry hop + an oz of Willamette just for fun. Give it plenty of time to carb up and then another 2 weeks in the fridge; you will be in CDA heaven

I'm so brewing this (Sadly not till April)! I've been looking for a Black IPA that would be close to the Widmer Brothers one and this looks like a winner. Thanks!

dickproenneke said:

No. You should be extracting more than 5.5gal of wort for a 5.5gal batch. Not every system is the same, so depending on your system will need a preboil volume of anywhere from 6.5-7+gal. I brew inside on a gas range and I end up boiling off a little less than 1gal. My buddy brews outside on a big propane burner and boils off closer to 1.5gal.

BTW, this is a KILLER recipe. I bottled up some Darth a couple months ago and it just keeps getting better and better. I did an add an extra oz of cascade in the dry hop + an oz of Willamette just for fun. Give it plenty of time to carb up and then another 2 weeks in the fridge; you will be in CDA heaven

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Good to know, I planned on dry hopping with the cascade and willamette I have left over.

dickproenneke said:

No. You should be extracting more than 5.5gal of wort for a 5.5gal batch. Not every system is the same, so depending on your system will need a preboil volume of anywhere from 6.5-7+gal. I brew inside on a gas range and I end up boiling off a little less than 1gal. My buddy brews outside on a big propane burner and boils off closer to 1.5gal.

BTW, this is a KILLER recipe. I bottled up some Darth a couple months ago and it just keeps getting better and better. I did an add an extra oz of cascade in the dry hop + an oz of Willamette just for fun. Give it plenty of time to carb up and then another 2 weeks in the fridge; you will be in CDA heaven

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Thanks for answering

Just needed to double check that the recipe actually would yield 5.5 gal after cooking, so I didn't end up draining to much and make it watery. I know Vader would not approve watery beer

dickproenneke said:

BTW, this is a KILLER recipe. I bottled up some Darth a couple months ago and it just keeps getting better and better. I did an add an extra oz of cascade in the dry hop + an oz of Willamette just for fun. Give it plenty of time to carb up and then another 2 weeks in the fridge; you will be in CDA heaven

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Thank you and I'm glad you enjoyed the brew

I did something similar last year for a 40th birthday party. I'm working my way around to making it again.

Here's my bottlemark cap

Scooby_Brew said:

Thank you and I'm glad you enjoyed the brew

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Are you kidding? It's da bomb!

Correct me if I'm crazy but when I put in the 5.5 extract into beersmith 2 and I get 1.054 for OG. In partial mash mode, which is what I usually now do, I still only get 1.063. My colors and IBU are also lower. Both times at 72% efficiency.

This is the one I made from the original all grain recipe to do as a partial mash I will be attempting in a few weeks. I obviously had to up the 60 and 45 minutes hop additions to account for partial boil. Any thoughts?

Type: Partial Mash Date: 3/6/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer:
Boil Size: 3.50 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (5 Gallon)
Final Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Type: Partial Mash Date: 3/6/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer:
Boil Size: 3.50 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (5 Gallon)
Final Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage

Mash Ingredients

1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2 10.0 %
1 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 10.0 %
1 lbs Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 1 10.0 %
8.0 oz Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.0 %

Boil Ingredients

6 lbs 8.0 oz Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 5 65.0 %
2.25 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 43.1 IBUs
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 7 19.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 5.2 IBUs
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

Dry Hops

1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

Fermentation Ingredients

1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast

One question: The recipe says primary fermentation 30 days. Why should it stay so long in primary fermentation?

That's because I prefer to go with "No Secondary" fermentation. I've been doing it like that for years. Look it up, they have plenty of threads about it over here. But you can do a primary plus a secondary if you want, it's up to you.

Scooby_Brew said:

That's because I prefer to go with "No Secondary" fermentation. I've been doing it like that for years. Look it up, they have plenty of threads about it over here. But you can do primary plus secondary if you want, it's up to you.

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I concur. I only do a secondary these days if I'm starting off with something in the fermenter like a bag of orange puree in my blood orange hefe.

high5apparatus said:

I concur. I only do a secondary these days if I'm starting off with something in the fermenter like a bag of orange puree in my blood orange hefe.

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OK, so a secondary isn't needed if you are dry hopping?

This one is going on my list of "on deck" brews.

I dry hop all the time without racking to secondary. You'll only get off flavors if you leave it on the yeast cake for many months (dead yeast vs. dormant yeast). I find secondary is a way to get your beer off of things like a mesh bag of orange puree or to get more clarity. Secondary is also another opportunity for one to infect a beer.

Awesome. That makes this one a little easier to plan. I was thinking I would have to time it so I had an empty fermentor in 2 weeks.

It does make it a lot easier to plan. I have 6 carboys and I keep them all full, so it would get complicated if I kept needing an empty for transfer.

Secondary helps clear up beers and allows you to do some swirling when dry hopping. I always go to secondary. Chance of infection is negligible

Petekiteworld said:

Secondary helps clear up beers and allows you to do some swirling when dry hopping. I always go to secondary. Chance of infection is negligible

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Yes. I always secondary when dry hopping. My routine is this - cold crash the primary, siphon into a bucket fermenter with a paint strainer sack full of hops, a week later I pull the hop bag and squeeze the delicious juices out of it, then I crash for 2 days and bottle. Amazing results and zero sediment in the bottle. If I kegged I could probably get away with primary only, but bottling, no way no how.

Agree with bottle bomber, his is the ideal method.

Only if I'm making a porter or something real dark ill just do primary.

Ok I got all the ingredients yesterday to do an extract version of this... The only things I've changed are that I'm using all DME and I'm doing a late extract add... I'll let y'all know how it turns out!

Was wondering how long you you preboil the grains in the all extract version. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

JJ

20 to 30 minutes at 160 degrees. But you don't have to be exact when steeping grains.

Mine went in the keg for dry hopping yesterday. I resisted the urge to try any as I only brewed about 2 gallons and want every sip to be final product.
I'll move it to the fridge in 3 days and start carbing.

cookiepussbrewery said:

Was wondering how long you you preboil the grains in the all extract version. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

JJ

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JJ don't boil the grains! Steep them between 150-160 degrees for 20-30 minutes in a grain bag...

brevity said:

Mine went in the keg for dry hopping yesterday. I resisted the urge to try any as I only brewed about 2 gallons and want every sip to be final product.
I'll move it to the fridge in 3 days and start carbing.

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Yesterday was brew day it went into the primary and it's a 5.5 gallon batch! OG 1.070 this will be bottled and naturally conditioned so it will be ready in about 5 weeks...

I used the wrong word. I meant steeping.


JJ

cookiepussbrewery said:

I used the wrong word. I meant steeping.

JJ

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I heated the water to 160, removed from heat put the grain bag in and covered for 30 minutes. Removed the grain bag and let the water run off without squeezing. I then brought it to a boil REMOVED FROM HEAT and added 3 lbs DME, brought back to boil and waited for the hot break, I then followed the hop schedule in the recipe. After flame out I added another 4 lbs DME

Davek,

Can I ask why adding the 4 at flame out and not all at the start

Jj

cookiepussbrewery said:

Davek,

Can I ask why adding the 4 at flame out and not all at the start

Jj

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I've been reading about late addition extract boils and wanted to try it... I've read it cuts down on the caramelizing in lighter beers it affects the color but this one wont matter for color I am curious if it will affect taste. As long as it remains over 170 degrees for 15-20 minutes it will be pasteurized and shouldn't infect the batch

davek said:

I've been reading about late addition extract boils and wanted to try it... I've read it cuts down on the caramelizing in lighter beers it affects the color but this one wont matter for color I am curious if it will affect taste. As long as it remains over 170 degrees for 15-20 minutes it will be pasteurized and shouldn't infect the batch

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The Maillard reaction causes the extract to caramelize and convert somewhat to long chain unfermentable sugars. Since it's an IPA, you want it to attenuate as much as possible.

davek said:

I've been reading about late addition extract boils and wanted to try it... I've read it cuts down on the caramelizing in lighter beers it affects the color but this one wont matter for color I am curious if it will affect taste. As long as it remains over 170 degrees for 15-20 minutes it will be pasteurized and shouldn't infect the batch

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I was wondering if you could let me know what your boil size was as well. I am looking to do this real soon and didn't know if you did a full boil or smaller.

JJ

I brewed this last night pretty much per the 5.5 gal recipe. The only difference is that I did first wort with the centennial rather than waiting for the boil. This will be my first time dry hopping, and I know how to do it, but wonder about the time. When should I add the last ounce of hops, and for how long should it sit before bottling?