Better Bottles vs. Cheap Standard Plastic Fermentor

Ok, so here is the deal:

I am broke and can't decide between purchasing a couple of better bottles with all the racking adapters, a wort chiller, and other basic necessities (which by my estimates are going to cost me about $200) or to go with a cheap $60 single plastic fermenter setup. I really love beer, but if I go with the better bottles and such, I probably won't be able to afford any for the month or so while I am making my first batch.

Any input on my situation?

Thanks.

No matter how advanced you get, so long as you're doing 5 gallon batches, you will want a bucket to use as a priming bucket, so you'd be crazy not to buy at least one. But, on the other hand, you're also going to want a clear secondary fermenter right away. So...

Get one better bottle and use it for your secondary. Get one "Ale Pail" and use it as your primary. Skip the wort chiller- it's not absolutely necessary if you can't afford it... just use an ice water bath instead (or keep it in a mound of snow if you live north of the frost line).



Better Bottle: $23
Ale Pail: $7
Hydrometer: $12
Thermometer: $5
Brewkettle: $50 (turkey fryer)
Propane: $45 (for bottle and propane)
Long Spoon: $2
Some nylon tubing: $5

That's about all you need. $169, all inclusive. Just add ingredients.

Why not go the bucket route and replace them one by one when you slowly get the funds. The buckets make just as good beer and most of us on this board started with them.

Nothing wrong with buckets for fermenters and if you like to dry hop, they are much easier to work with.

First of all, you don't need to use racking adapters with better bottles so that will take a lot of the cost away. My suggestions for first purchase:

1 -6.5g bucket with lid and spigot - this will be your primary and bottling $15.
2 -airlocks $3
1 -5 gal better bottle for secondary $17
1 -autosiphon $12
1 - thermometer $6
1 - Hydrometer w/test tube $15
5- feet of 5/16" tubing $3
One Step sanitizer
1 - ingredient kit $25
1 - bottle capper + a gross of caps $15 (unless you have some Coors PET bottles like i did)

If you don't already have at least a 16 qt pot, you can pick up a turkey fryer at Walmart for $37.

If you needed everything, you're well under $200 which leaves enough for your beer habit while you wait.

It doesn't sound like the kits are comparable, regardless. The wort chiller's a great piece of equipment, but you don't need it with partial boils. Most of us started with the $60 kits or something very similar. What I'd do is buy that kit and a single extra better bottle that you can use as a secondary fermenter.

IN place of a wort chiller, you can also just add cold water and ice into your wort, then rack to your primary.

Don't forget that you'll need bottles or kegs and a good brew pot (you'll want at least 6 gallons, which you can get for ~$50 at Walmart).

I bought a kit that had two buckets (one is a bottling bucket), brush, racking cane, hydrometer, etc for about $50. Then it's about $30-$40 for your first kit (and I think most will recommend using a kit your first time).

Save you money, this hobby gets costly. Once you see BrewPastors setup, you'll never like what you have.

Being a newbie myself, I'm not really qualified to talk about the best equipment. However, as a person who's gone through many, many, MANY hobbies in her lifetime, I'm a big believer in starting out with what's most affordable and will give me a good start. My experience has been that I start out many hobbies with a big BANG! and then gradually (or sometimes not so gradually) lose interest. This is the main reason I start out with entry level stuff. The nice thing about the plastic bucket setups is that it seems lots of experienced brewers still find uses for the equipment when they upgrade, yet they are affordable enough to give a good start.

I've got 4 Better Bottles. I love them, but I will never primary ferment in them.

If I'm going to make a beer, it takes the same effort to make 5 gallons of wort as 7 and I get 40% more beer. If one uses a BB for a primary fermentor, one starts with about 5 gallons of wort by the time you leave headspace for foaming. By the time one racks it to the secondary, you've got about 4.5 gallons left.

With a plastic pail fermentor, you can start with 7+ gallons in the primary and rack off 6 full allons into a BB secondary. That is the way I am going to use my BBs.

You can also survive without a huge brewpot - a 16-20qt canning pot will work fine for extract brews (or whatever you have). Also, a propane turkey fryer is not needed for extract, unless SO doesn't want smell of beer cooking in house. I made most of my first dozen batches with only 2 ale pails. Most only went with primary ferment, eventually picked up a 5gal glass carboy for secondary on larger beers. If $ is tight, just get the bare minimum to brew, using what you have already (stove, big canning / stock pot, etc) and buy a couple of kits to get some practice. Make sure you like the process. Just be aware that without a secondary vessel you are limited to standard strength brews that don't need a secondary.

I just got back to brewing after a 5-year hiatus, but am strapped for $. Decided that I would brew within my equipment limits then go for the replacement carboy (mine broke moving) and wort chiller. I even borrowed a 2gal Igloo water jug cooler to do a partial mash using a strainer bag. Be creative, and good luck. Welcome to the hobby.

You can also survive without a huge brewpot - a 16-20qt canning pot will work fine for extract brews (or whatever you have).

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I brewed an extract kit yesterday in the kitchen using 2 large SS pots. It worked in that I got it made, but what a pain. I did a full boil and the pots were full. I didn't boil over, but it was close. Had to watch them all the time. Then I set them in the snowbank to cool. It took forever. When I opened the pots, there was some water on top of the lids and some of it got into the wort.

Its not fermenting yet and I'm worried.

The thing I don't like about giving a newbie advice saying a brew can be done with minimal equipment is that they see the hard side of brewing. Brewing with makeshift equipment sucks. Brewing with nice equipment is pure joy. I wonder how many people have been turned off of brewing because they have had a poor setup ?

Go for the cheap option and spend the money on ingredients.
Save the money on store bought and save for the better equipment.

brewman ! said:

The thing I don't like about giving a newbie advice saying a brew can be done with minimal equipment is that they see the hard side of brewing. Brewing with makeshift equipment sucks. Brewing with nice equipment is pure joy. I wonder how many people have been turned off of brewing because they have had a poor setup ?

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I agree that a person needs to purchase the best equipment possible, but many people can only afford the minimal equipment requirements. As a newbie myself, it is nice to have knowledgeable people to advise me on what I need to buy and what could be adapted from what I already have. It allowed me to get involved in a pastime at a price point I could afford. There are future plans for upgrading equipment (a larger brewpot to replace my current enamelware canning pot, a better bottle to replace my plastic bucket secondary, an autosiphon, etc) but if it weren't for others telling me what equipment was "good enough" to get started, I wouldn't be brewing today.

If you really want to make the best beer you can, I suggest holding back some of your budget to purchase Papazians "The complete joy of homebrewing". There are so many good tips in there that it will improve your brews far more than any particular bottle or chiller or whatever.

OK, if we were to make a list of things that matter during the brew process and how to do them cheaply, what would it look like ?

For me...

#1) Full boil. How cheaply ? Either put a $7 heating element in a plastic pail (that is how I did it) or buy an aluminum pot. (A lot cheaper than SS.) While you are at it, make it large enough that you aren't always worried about boiling over.

#2) Cool wort down quickly after boiling. How cheaply ? Copper immersion coil. It will waste some water, but quickly chilling your wort after boiling is imperative.

#3) Temp control during mashing. How cheaply ? Find a used cooler with good insulation. (Assuming you aren't doing a step mash.)

#4) Secondary fermentation in an air tight container. How cheaply: Better Bottle ($20), water cooler jug, used glass carboy.

Really, the total equipment needed to do AG isn't that much. 1 big pot, 2 coolers and a chiller. Extract is even less, namely 1 big pot and a chiller.

If you can't afford Better Bottles (which are actually cheaper than glass at my HB shop !) then use a water cooler jug. The primary fermentor can be a plastic pail normally thrown out by a restaurant. (Make sure it isn't harboring any tastes !)

If you REALLY want to save some $$ and learn quickly, find a local homebrewer and offer to help in exchange for wort or maybe he will brew with you. Not only do you get away from buying some of the equipment, you also get someone experienced showing you the ropes.

1.) plastic pale with 3kw immersion heater
2.) Cooler with 1" copper manifold
3.) Cheap SS Keg with spigot from plumbing supplies
3.) 30000btu burner will boil in <1/2 hour
4.) 1 coil 10mm copper and a couple of hose clamps will cool in <1/2 hr and use around 50L of water.
5.) Glass carboys are cheaper than better bottles over here.

6.) Cornies are expensive at > $90 with a tap on. A full gass set up is around $100. But we can get plastic pressure barrels at around $40 and a small gas setup for around $60

Bobby_M said:

First of all, you don't need to use racking adapters with better bottles so that will take a lot of the cost away.

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The racking adapters are SO nice though...don't buy the Better Bottles until you can afford to get them with the racking adapters. Use buckets until then. You WILL want the adapters, they are half the appeal of the Better Bottles.

I thought the same thing about wanting the racking adapter for my Better Bottles.

Then I bought one of those orange carboy caps with 2 holes in them, one for the racking tube and the other for a regular hose. So now to start a siphon I put the racking tube in one of them and a hose on the other and blow on the hose for about 5 seconds and my siphon is started. If you are looking to save money, the racking valve can surely isn't essential.

One of the reasons I don't want the racking valve in my BBs is that I am going to try carbonating with them and the racking valves will not seal against significant pressure.

brewman ! said:

One of the reasons I don't want the racking valve in my BBs is that I am going to try carbonating with them and the racking valves will not seal against significant pressure.

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I've read the discussions about that. I honestly do believe that it could work just fine.... I think you're a smart person and I have confidence that if anyone can do this, you can. You are intelligent and well-read in the art of making booze.

But you will have to forgive me. Deep deep down, there's this little part of me that's hoping you create the world's biggest bottle bomb! It's not that I wish you ill will, it's just that, if it happens, I really really want to see the pictures.

*laughs "worlds biggest bottle bomb" hehe

Sorry to disappoint you, but when carbonating, the carboy should be 95% full of liquids and thus the actual explosion, if it did happen would be relatively mild.

What makes a bigger pop, a water ballon or an air filled ballon ? Same thing here.

What makes a bigger pop, a water ballon or an air filled ballon ? Same thing here.

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Well, the biggest explosion will be your SWMBO, if the BB is stored anywhere in the house!

brewman ! said:

What makes a bigger pop, a water ballon or an air filled ballon ? Same thing here.

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Ahh.. but which one makes the bigger mess?

And I agree with bird. The biggest explosion could well be that of SWMBO if you kept that anywhere near your living space.


But seriously, I'm pulling for you. It'll be great if it works!!!!

Thanks, guys !

I hope to work on the corny steam generator tonight, in case anyone is keeping track.