Cost difference betwen AG and extract brewing?

I was playing around with recipes on Brewmaster's Brew Builder and if I'm not mistaken it appears that AG brewing is a little cheaper than brewing with extract. Is this correct for the most part?

If so, I would imagine that the cost of setting up for AG brewing may be offset by the lower cost of ingredients over time. Hmmmmn.......

Richard-SSV said:

I was playing around with recipes on Brewmaster's Brew Builder and if I'm not mistaken it appears that AG brewing is a little cheaper than brewing with extract. Is this correct for the most part?

If so, I would imagine that the cost of setting up for AG brewing may be offset by the lower cost of ingredients over time. Hmmmmn.......

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Its not a little cheaper, its a lot cheaper, as long as you're buying in bulk.


I made 5G of a mild the other day, and I think the ingredient cost was about $7. When I was buying extract kits, they were $30+

Do a search and/or check out the similar threads at the bottom of this page. It seams that this has been discussed with some intensity is the recent past.

Straight fact is that the grain for all grain is cheaper then the malt extract equivalents. But all the other raw materials required to make beer are the same price.

There is more equipment required to brew all grain but the cost of that equipment can vary significantly.

Depending on what type of equipment you get for All Grain, you can offset prices very quickly. You don't need the fancy single tier systems with pumps and whatnot to do an all grain batch.

With the brew in a bag all grain setups, all you need are a burner, an 5G paint strainer bag and a large enough pot to boil the wort.

Add bulk purchases of grain and hops to that and my average 1.045OG batch comes in a little under $14, including yeast.

Synovia said:

Its not a little cheaper, its a lot cheaper, as long as you're buying in bulk.


I made 5G of a mild the other day, and I think the ingredient cost was about $7. When I was buying extract kits, they were $30+

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I'm gonna call BS on this one. There are plenty of extract kits for under 30.00 just like there are all grain kits that cost more then 30.00.

You could just as easily buy bulk extract and brew the same mild for only slightly more then the all grain.

I agree that all grain is considerable cheaper for the ingredients but it seems like I am spending above and beyond any ingredient savings on equipment daily. I am slowly trying to build a single tier system and it is not cheap.

ya, going all grain is expensive because of the equipment. Not to mention the other variables - energy, time, sordid obsession development, etc.

I honestly think the best value might be partial mash (because you dont have to do full boils)...

maida7 said:

I'm gonna call BS on this one. There are plenty of extract kits for under 30.00 just like there are all grain kits that cost more then 30.00.

You could just as easily buy bulk extract and brew the same mild for only slightly more then the all grain.

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Who said all extract kits were over $30, and all AG kits were less than that? The guy was speaking from his own experience.

Overall, doing similar recipes with each, AG will be significantly cheaper than extract, especially if you're buying hops and grain in bulk, and reusing yeast. I can easily see a low-OG, low-IBU brew costing around $7.00.

maida7 said:

I'm gonna call BS on this one. There are plenty of extract kits for under 30.00 just like there are all grain kits that cost more then 30.00.

You could just as easily buy bulk extract and brew the same mild for only slightly more then the all grain.

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I haven't seen too many extract kits for under $30 including shipping AND yeast(unless you use a dry yeast pack).
I keep seeing these deals and thinking I should go for that. Then I see that you have to add the yeast and it ups the price by 8-9 bucks. Plus shipping...

HomerJR said:

Who said all extract kits were over $30, and all AG kits were less than that? The guy was speaking from his own experience.

Overall, doing similar recipes with each, AG will be significantly cheaper than extract, especially if you're buying hops and grain in bulk, and reusing yeast. I can easily see a low-OG, low-IBU brew costing around $7.00.

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And I could see the same beer made with bulk extract costing 10.00. So were talking about a theoretical 3.00 difference. That's not a big difference in my book.

Further more, if you went to brew a very hoppy beer, the fairly meager price difference shrinks.

dunnright00 said:

I haven't seen too many extract kits for under $30 including shipping AND yeast(unless you use a dry yeast pack).
I keep seeing these deals and thinking I should go for that. Then I see that you have to add the yeast and it ups the price by 8-9 bucks. Plus shipping...

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There are tons of kits under 30.00. Check out morebeer and Austin homebrew. They aren't the kits that I like to brew but maybe you'll like them. They tend to beers that are less ingredient intensive like an English Mild.

Morebeer has free shipping if you buy a certain amount. Austin has flat rate 7.99 shipping. You local homebrew shop has free shipping when you pick it up.

The yeast is the same cost for all grain and extract. If you re use your yeast or buy fresh liquid samples for ever batch it's the same price for either method of making wort.

BUT if you want the lowest price, buy everything in bulk, re use your yeast, and make low gravity, lightly hopped beers. You could do all that with extracts and save money from making kit beer. But that's not the original subject is it. The question was what's the price difference between AG and extract and the only difference is in the price of the malt. IMHO it's a fairly minor difference. There is much more savings in buying bulk and/or re using yeast.

alcibiades said:

ya, going all grain is expensive because of the equipment. Not to mention the other variables - energy, time, sordid obsession development, etc.

I honestly think the best value might be partial mash (because you dont have to do full boils)...

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AG equipment isn't expensive. I converted an Ice Cube cooler for $34 total. I bought a turkey fryer with SS pot for $50. Refill your propane tank and you're right around $100, right there. Don't really count time and all that because it's a hobby of mine that I enjoy.

I just picked up some 55# sacks of base malt from MidCountry yesterday. Average base grain price/lb is ~$0.67. Assuming 10 lbs per batch, that's only $6.70 in base grain, which I would argue is close to half the cost of extract. I have recouped my costs rather quickly.

Check out Austin home brewing's web site recipe. There you can choose whether you want the recipe in AG, PM, or extract. It gives a pretty good idea about how much you can save. I can say with confidence that I have already paid for my AG set up. It really does not take long to do that when you build it all on the cheap. There is no question that AG is less expensive, and I've still done more extract brewing than AG. Yes, it takes more time, but I actually enjoy my brewing day more doing AG than I did doing extract.

maida7 said:

I'm gonna call BS on this one. There are plenty of extract kits for under 30.00 just like there are all grain kits that cost more then 30.00.

You could just as easily buy bulk extract and brew the same mild for only slightly more then the all grain.

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There may be plenty of kits for under $30, but I've never seen any of them.

I used 7lbs of grain in my mild. The grain cost was roughly $4. It translates to 4.2lbs of DME. The cheapest I've ever seen bulk DME is AHB's 30lbs for about $111 shipped. Thats roughly $15.50 on DME alone.

If you need to use the "its cheaper" rationale to fly an all grain setup past your significant other, then go for it. But, while there is a difference in cost between all grain and extract batches, I would not let that be the determining factor for your brewing method. I prefer all grain for the higher degree of control it gives me over the finished product, not the cost.

This has been beat to death but I'll tilt this windmill anyway... Don't go all-grain JUST to save money. There are ways to get extract brews down to a very reasonable cost. Go all-grain when you want more control over your brews. In some cases it will be cheaper but most of us put that money right back in and then some on better AG equipment.

But if you are trying to convince SWMBO feel free to use whatever justification comes to mind

I don't buy in bulk, and I went from a 61 cent a beer average in my first eight batches (extract) to 34 cent a beer average for the next 6 (all grain). All I needed was a bigger pot ($40) and a mash tun ($33). At that cost it will only take me 270.37 bottles of beer to recover the investment. That just over 5 five gallon batches.

So without the numbers, yeah it cheaper.

Synovia said:

There may be plenty of kits for under $30, but I've never seen any of them.

I used 7lbs of grain in my mild. The grain cost was roughly $4. It translates to 4.2lbs of DME. The cheapest I've ever seen bulk DME is AHB's 30lbs for about $111 shipped. Thats roughly $15.50 on DME alone.

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While I do agree that all grain is significantly cheaper on the fermentable side, DME can be had cheaper in bulk. Being in Chicago, I assume you got your grain at MidCountry, and they sell 50lb bags of DME for $98. This is more like $8.40 for your Mild. Still more than twice as expensive, which becomes more apparent with larger recipes.

I mostly make very, very, very hoppy beers and I always use extract and steep specialty grains.

My LHBS has LME for $2.10 a pound. I pretty much always do 7.5 pounds of LME so $15.75 per batch.

I get about 4 pounds of specialty grains to steep. At $1.50 a pound that's another $6.

I buy hops in bulk from Hopsdirect. My '09 shipment works out to about $0.80 an ounce of hops. I probably use 7 ounces in most of my beers, so $5.60.

I get my yeast for free from a local microbrewery. So $0

Not including the cost of priming sugar, equipment, water (tap), natural gas, burton salts, and bottle caps, that's just under $30.

Obviously, the biggest expense is the LME, especially since I'm using so much. I could probably knock off about $10 per batch if I used all grain.

For me, I make such a limited range of styles (blondes, APAs, IPAs, CDAs), I don't have the time for all-grain, I have a small house (less room for equipment), so extract brewing works for me.

If I had the time and room, I'd love to go all-grain. However, if I started making lagers or belgian style beers, I wouldn't just need to go all grain, I'd probably also need to BUY yeast and more equipment.

If you want to go all-grain to get a more thorough understanding of the brewing process and more satisfaction in brewing "from scratch," then do it. Homebrewing (whether mr. beer, extract, partial mash, or all-grain) is an exercise in futility. Every brewer is probably brewing beer that costs more per fluid ounce than most commercial beer, but is having lots of fun doing it.

Synovia said:

There may be plenty of kits for under $30, but I've never seen any of them.

I used 7lbs of grain in my mild. The grain cost was roughly $4. It translates to 4.2lbs of DME. The cheapest I've ever seen bulk DME is AHB's 30lbs for about $111 shipped. Thats roughly $15.50 on DME alone.

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You can get bulk LME at more beer so that it works out to 2.00 per lb. Say it takes 5 lbs to make a mild then the price is 10.00 for the LME.

But what does that mean to you? Is that why you move from extract to AG? Just to save a few bucks per batch?

maida7 said:

But what does that mean to you? Is that why you move from extract to AG? Just to save a few bucks per batch?

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Don't you like money?

maida7 said:

There are tons of kits under 30.00. Check out morebeer and Austin homebrew. They aren't the kits that I like to brew but maybe you'll like them. They tend to beers that are less ingredient intensive like an English Mild.

Morebeer has free shipping if you buy a certain amount. Austin has flat rate 7.99 shipping. You local homebrew shop has free shipping when you pick it up.

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I looked at AHS and the cheapest kit they have is AHS American Light Lager at 16.99. Add the yeast it goes up to 24.97. Then shipping makes it 32.96.

Sure, you buy more and you save, and I think that's the basic sentiment here. Buy in bulk if you want to save $$$.

I didn't move to AG to save money, but it is a very nice benefit. I no longer feel guilty about the amount of decent beer I drink. It's almost as cheap as drinking Diet Coke, and certainly cheaper than the swill that passes for "beer" that has permeated our society like H1N1.

maida7 said:

You can get bulk LME at more beer so that it works out to 2.00 per lb. Say it takes 5 lbs to make a mild then the price is 10.00 for the LME.

But what does that mean to you? Is that why you move from extract to AG? Just to save a few bucks per batch?

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Did you even read the title of this thread?


Let me point it out to you again:

Cost difference betwen AG and extract brewing?

Wow, there's a lot of undue hostility in this thread.

Cheapest DME you can get is 50 lbs for $100. If you're shooting for a 1.045 OG, that's 5 pounds of malt or $10.

Cheapest 2-row is about $27 for 55 lbs or 49 cents a pound. If you'd likely need 7.5 pounds for the same 1.045 beer so that's under $4.

Now, go up to a 1.090 beer and you're at a $12 difference.

I'm not saying it's a reason to brew all grain but it is a slight benefit.

Synovia said:

Did you even read the title of this thread?


Let me point it out to you again:

Cost difference betwen AG and extract brewing?

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So what's your point?

tundra05 said:

Don't you like money?

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Yes but the point is to brew beer and the difference in the price of just the malt alone is not a good enough reason for me to switch to all grain.

Fortunately, we are all free to make our own decisions.

maida7 said:

So what's your point?

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The point is that he was answering the OP's specific question directly and you poo poo'd him.

Aside from that, there are a LOT of other reasons to brew all grain and cost is a very insignificant factor.

Bobby_M said:

Wow, there's a lot of undue hostility in this thread.

Cheapest DME you can get is 50 lbs for $100. If you're shooting for a 1.045 OG, that's 5 pounds of malt or $10.

Cheapest 2-row is about $27 for 55 lbs or 49 cents a pound. If you'd likely need 7.5 pounds for the same 1.045 beer so that's under $4.

Now, go up to a 1.090 beer and you're at a $12 difference.

I'm not saying it's a reason to brew all grain but it is a slight benefit.

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Where can you get 50 pounds of DME for $100? One of the main reasons I went AG was for the cost savings, but better beer and a greater variety was also a goal. but out of the last 7 batches I have done, only two were really good. and many I had to dump. I have never dumped an extract batch. I know I am still learning, but when factoring in time, extra propane costs ($5 or more per batch), and extra frustration the margin narrows. Now I think I am going back to partial mash just because I am tried of brewing crappy beer. I almost do not want to brew anymore cause it takes soooo long. Once I find a group to buy into and get some $20 sacks, then that maybe a different story.

So I've only done 3 Ag batches as of this morning, and I think after buying the cooler and the larger pot (which I needed anyway), I can make a mild for $11, and that is without buying grain in bulk.

All my beer is much cheaper to produce.

That is only cost difference, as for the rest of the differences, I don't think I'll be making any extract-based beers in the near future, AG makes all the difference.

I did two recipes of an APA. Both 10 gallon batches. The all grain was one I had just made and the other was an extract version, assuming $2 a lb for DME. The all grain cost was $18.43. The extract was $28.90. But in a quick look today I couldn't find DME for less than $3 a lb. So that would raise the price to about $34. That is my take on the OP's original question.
But as some have said here, its not about the price of beer that drive the move to all grain. For me it was taste and really feeling like I had a craft. Like the difference between assembling a kitchen hutch from a box or building it from scratch from lumber. And please all you extract brewers don't take offense to this. This is how brewing beer makes me feel and has nothing with how you brew or the quality of what you brew.

sunblock said:

Where can you get 50 pounds of DME for $100? One of the main reasons I went AG was for the cost savings, but better beer and a greater variety was also a goal. but out of the last 7 batches I have done, only two were really good. and many I had to dump. I have never dumped an extract batch. I know I am still learning, but when factoring in time, extra propane costs ($5 or more per batch), and extra frustration the margin narrows. Now I think I am going back to partial mash just because I am tried of brewing crappy beer. I almost do not want to brew anymore cause it takes soooo long. Once I find a group to buy into and get some $20 sacks, then that maybe a different story.

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www.northcountrymalt.com has 50lb boxes of DME.

propane is usually $5+ for allgrain which hurts the total cost per batch

but buying in bulk(ag or extract) is the key

To address the OP, yes it's cheaper. It's cheaper weather you're buying in bulk or not. I've only recently began buying in bulk, $1 per pound grain & $.65 per oz. hops. My AG investments have included aprox. $34 in my 5 gal MLT & $42 for my 10 Gal. pot. Already had a Brinkman fish cooker for burner and propane tank. I brew AG in 5.5 gal. batches as cheaply as can be done from an equipment standpoint. I have Kegs for a 10 Gal. system, but can't front the 'moola' to build the system. Well that and I don't care to have to explain it to my parishioners whom would not understand! Chiefly though I AG brew for the control I get over the final product. My AG bier is much better than my extract bier was. Some is my improvement as a brewer, some is not.

sunblock said:

Where can you get 50 pounds of DME for $100? One of the main reasons I went AG was for the cost savings, but better beer and a greater variety was also a goal. but out of the last 7 batches I have done, only two were really good. and many I had to dump. I have never dumped an extract batch. I know I am still learning, but when factoring in time, extra propane costs ($5 or more per batch), and extra frustration the margin narrows. Now I think I am going back to partial mash just because I am tried of brewing crappy beer. I almost do not want to brew anymore cause it takes soooo long. Once I find a group to buy into and get some $20 sacks, then that maybe a different story.

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I'd like to offer up some advice sunblock. If you've had to dump multiple batches that quickly something is severely wrong. What's going on? My advice is to get with a local brewing club, or invite some fellow brewers over for a brew day.

Schlante,
Phillip

Leaving aside the cost of the equipment, time, etc., it makes sense that AG would be cheaper for extract. Built into the cost of the extract is the cost the manufacturer incurs in making the wort, and reducing it to syrup.

Threads on this subject tend to be all over the map, because people engage in "cherrypicking" numbers to prove their point.....and the point usually moves away to motives other than the purely economic. As has been pointed out, the big difference is in the cost of malted grains vs. the cost of extract.

When it comes to equipment, that's often situational. I don't believe that someone who buys a $5K Blichmann system is worried about when the cost of that system will be amortized by their savings. This, in turn, brings up the whole question of the numbers of people who are in this thing to save money.

Speaking for myself, even if I value the time I spend at this at only minimum wage, it's not much better than a wash, I'm not doing it to save money. (Oh, BTW, I DON'T work for minimum wage- I won't turn off he alarm clock and saddle up for less than $150/hr, $1K minimum, $5K if you want me for the whole week (that's my pre-Christmas special).

It seems that part of the problem with buying bulk in extract is that it becomes harder because of the different styles available. Yeah, you can get the 'base' in bulk but what about the rest? I remember one site with a decent selection, including Munich, but there seem to be 5 'standard' extracts. If you have to use one of those with the 'base' then the price goes up more. No? I'm still pecking around deciding how to go, just did my first batch solo (extract) last night, but I'm reluctant to buy 50 pounds of one type of extract at this point.

I think half of my problem, was that I used recalled notty yeast on each batch, and my temps we slightly warm 72-3, but I am at the point were I just want to make my brew day easier. You can use extract much like 2-row malt, you just need to pick a base extract and steep some specialty grains each time to get your color / flavorings. I am most certainly going to go back to AG, but if you really do some hunting the cost difference is much slighter than I thought at first, assuming you are getting your 2-row in the $55 range per sack.

When you go all grain you usually increase your equipment well beyond the necessary to go ag but it is the cost of expanding the hobby. You can do it with just a few coolers if you want, but you will usually go further than that which will expand your knowledge. I would not say that ag is better than extract brewing when it comes to quality in some beers you produce, but you definatley cross another threshold into looking at the process more like a commercial brewing concern, and there is no price that can be put on that. In the long run it will be cheaper per batch....without a question and you will become a better brewer, without a question, but it does depend on if you are in it for the long haul on whether you make the switch. Your brew time will increase substantially with ag brewing compared to extract, which could well justify paying more for extract due to convenience. I made the natural progression a long time ago and I am definatley a better brewer for it.

bkov said:

propane is usually $5+ for allgrain which hurts the total cost per batch

but buying in bulk(ag or extract) is the key

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If you're going through $5 worth of propane in every batch, you really need to adjust your burner or something. Thats a tank every 3 brews, which is, frankly, ridiculous.