Drawing Help Needed

This is probably the wrong place for this post but the help I need is all electrical so I figured you guys would be the right ones to ask for help.

I would really appreciate some help with a wiring diagram for my direct fire system. Here are a few details on what I am using:

3- Honeywell gas valves VR8345 w/ S8610 ignition modules
1- Pump

Here is what I would like to add to the system.
2- PID’s w/ RTD’s for the MLT and HLT with manual switch option and LED’s
1- Temperature gauge w/ RTD for the BK on a switch w/ LED
1- Pump switch w/ LED
I would also like to have a main power switch w/ LED.

After looking through all of the drawings I could find from P-J I couldn’t find one that met my want list or uses an electronic ignition.

Any help you guys could give would be greatly appreciated.

The drawing attached might help you in your plan.

As always - click on the image to see (and save) a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")




P-J

Thanks. I should be able to figure out how to change out the switches and add the LEDs.

I appreciate the help.

de3isit said:

Thanks. I should be able to figure out how to change out the switches and add the LEDs.

I appreciate the help.

Click to expand...

I placed those specific switches as they are LED illuminated devices.

Here's the link - Illuminated Maintained Pushbutton Switch

Operation Current Rating: 10A at 240 or 120VAC
Number of Contact: 2 Normally Open
Illumination Type: LED
Illumination color: Red, Blue, Green, yellow or white
Illumination Voltage: 240 or 120VAC

Click to expand...

I am looking for a switch that is on-off-manual. That is why i figured on a switch and an LED.

You want the 'manual' leg to fire the burner at 100% and skip the PID, or am I missing something? Why not just set the PID to manual mode and do it that way?

de3isit said:

I am looking for a switch that is on-off-manual. That is why i figured on a switch and an LED.

Click to expand...

Understood. Now comes the problem that I see in the many hours of trying to come up with a drawing that 'fits' your plan. I am totally unable to locate a LED that can be powered with 24V AC so that it illuminates with the selection of PID or Manual mode. Using a 120V LED really complicates the wiring with a huge jump in cost for custom switches.

Anyway, I tried my best. Sorry that it does not fit your needs. Wishing you success with your plan. Sorry for the diversion, I was just trying to help.

BadNewsBrewery said:

You want the 'manual' leg to fire the burner at 100% and skip the PID, or am I missing something? Why not just set the PID to manual mode and do it that way?

Click to expand...

Excellent and very easy to do. I agree.!

P-J

So this is where my ignorance kicks in. I can use the PID in a manual mode instead of using a seperate switch?

It may be model specific, but the PIDs most of us use - SYL-2352s from Auber - allow Auto or Manual modes. In auto, set it and forget it, the PID does the rest. In manual, you set the % you want it to run, whether that's 60% or 10% or 100%, it doesn't care. It's great for boiling with an element - mine sustains a rolling boil at 60%. So you could easily use the PID to manually go to 100% or whatever you wanted.

P-J said:

The drawing attached might help you in your plan.

As always - click on the image to see (and save) a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")




P-J

Click to expand...

P-J
I have decided to to make a change to my plans. I would like to add a RIMS tube to it. I want keep the same drawing you sent m, but add a PID controlled RIMS to it. So I will direct fire the HLT and BK and have the RIMS on the MLT. Do you have a drawing that depicts this set up?

de3isit said:

P-J
I have decided to to make a change to my plans. I would like to add a RIMS tube to it. I want keep the same drawing you sent m, but add a PID controlled RIMS to it. So I will direct fire the HLT and BK and have the RIMS on the MLT. Do you have a drawing that depicts this set up?

Click to expand...

The process of trying to help you became very time consuming (about 8 hours of pondering and drawing).

The problem was trying to integrate a 120V PID control for a 120V device along with low voltage controllers.

No problem on you. I decided to take on the task and I really hope it helps you in your plan. ...

As always - Click on the image to see and save a full-scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")



I hope this helps you. Please let me know.

P-J

Thanks a ton. One question, and it may just be obvious. Wouldn't the mini relay require 24v to the coil? What is the need for it?

Thanks again for your time and help.

de3isit said:

Thanks a ton. One question, and it may just be obvious. Wouldn't the mini relay require 24v to the coil? What is the need for it?

Thanks again for your time and help.

Click to expand...

The mini relay is there to allow the RIMS to be powered down without turning the PID off. That particular relay has a 120V coil and is from Auber Instuments - Mini Power Relay SPDT 120V-30A Model: R30A.

Hope this helps you.

That makes sense. I got another question for you. I work at Honeywell and have access to a number of pretty cool controls. Would you see a proble with using this type of SSR? I also included the tech specs to review as well.

Thanks for all your help.



View attachment RT850.pdf

de3isit said:

That makes sense. I got another question for you. I work at Honeywell and have access to a number of pretty cool controls. Would you see a proble with using this type of SSR? I also included the tech specs to review as well.

Thanks for all your help.

Click to expand...

Sorry,

I'm very familiar with the Auber Instrument products as I firmly believe they have outstanding products and provide excellent support.

The one you referenced > I do not have a clue.

So sorry.

I took a look at the data sheet and it doesn't look like this one wires up the same. The drawings seem to want you to run both lines to the SSR, whereas the Auber ones we only run one hot leg to. Also, the one you posted is listed at 23A but you can get a nice 40A SSR for cheap.

This one might work, but I'm going to stick with P-J on the 'never seen it, never used it, don't know for sure' team. There's one way to find out though (just don't burn your house down).

-Kevin

It has been a while since I started the design phase, but have finally started getting all of the components together. I bought the RTD's and PID's from Auberins and the case, switches and LED's from Electric Brewing Supply.

I do have a newb question on the pushbutton switches I bought. They only have one contact block on them. Do I need two contact blocks for the HLT, Boil and power switches shown on the schematic?

Thanks for all the help guys.

de3isit said:

...
I do have a newb question on the pushbutton switches I bought. They only have one contact block on them. Do I need two contact blocks for the HLT, Boil and power switches shown on the schematic?
...

Click to expand...

You need a second N/O contact block for the HLT & BOIL switches.

Thanks P-J.

As you can see I also removed one of the PID's. Here are a few of the modifications I am going to make to the layout.

- added a second pump switch
- removed the PID on the boil and just used the push button switch
- the HLT and MLT have separate gas valves with the HLT on the PID and the MLT on a push button

Other than that I am using the schematic as you originally drew it. I will start a build thread once I get a few more components together. i.e. wire, cords, terminal strips etc.

Thanks again for all the help.

I have started building the panel and have all of the front panel components in place. Now I am struggling with a couple issues on the inside layout.

First, is how to lay out the interior components to minimize the wire runs. My current thinking is that I will have 4 terminal strips. 2 will be for my 24V connections and 2 will be my hot and neutral connections. All of my ground connections will be to the ground lugs in the panels.

Second, is the best way to wire the numerous hot connections from the power switch. Should I run the hot leg back to the terminal strip and make each connection a homerun? this would make for quite a few wires from the door to the inside. I could also glue a terminal strip to the door to shorten the runs and minimize the runs from the door to the inside. Last I could daisy chain all of them.

Here is a picture of what I am thinking so far. For some reason the picture is rotated. The power is coming in at the top right side, which is actually the bottom. The 2 large terminal strips are 110V and the 2 small terminal strips are 24V.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Slight change in plans. In my haste to get my parts ordered and installed I forgot to order the stop switch. So, instead, I am going to omit it completely.

Here is a picture of the panel. The 2 yellow buttons will be manual controls for the BK and MLT burners. The red button is the power to the HLT. The drawing I have is now just a very loose interpretation, but I don't have the skills to redo the schematic, so I will just have to make it work.

Not sure why it rotates the picture.