Preventing Diacetyl -or- "Hold The Butter Please"

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BierMuncher

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I posted this extract from another website many months ago, but thought it worth repeating. For anybody who has been dinged in a competition for detectable diacetyl levels, or those of you wanting to rush your beers out of the primary…this is a must read.

Diacetyl is a natural by-product of fermentation. It is detectable in beer at concentrations as low as fifty parts per billion. At low levels, it gives beer a slick mouthfeel; at higher levels, the flavor becomes buttery — diacetyl is in fact what they make artificial butter out of — then like butterscotch, and eventually downright rancid. First I'll let you know where the diacetyl comes from, and then I'll tell you how to get it out of your beer.

What to do about it: You're not going to believe how simple this is. Do a “diacetyl rest”; that is, leave your beer in the fermenter for two or three days after it looks like the fermentation is complete. That's it. That will give the yeast time to clean up the diacetyl they've produced. If you're brewing an ale, the fermentation temperature is already high enough that the cleanup will proceed rather quickly. If you're brewing a lager, try this trick: start allowing the fermentation temperature to rise once the beer has fermented to half its original gravity. By that point, you're far enough into the fermentation that the yeast aren't going to generate any more “ale” characters (such as fruity esters) and you've still got enough time to let the temperature rise to a useful level, say, 65°F. Maintain this temperature until the diacetyl is gone or until the end of fermentation, whichever is later, then rack for lagering.

How can you tell if the diacetyl rest is complete? There's an easy “forcing” test that will only cost you a few ounces of beer. Pull a sample from your fermenter and split it into two covered containers. Refrigerate one and heat the other to 140°F for an hour, then taste them both. If they taste the same, you're ready to rack your beer out of the fermenter. If you can taste butter in the heated sample, your yeast is still at work, and you should give it another day or two.

Another testament to longer fermentation times equating to cleaner tasting beer.
 
I keg after 3-5 weeks in primary and never notice diacetyl. The biggest thing new brewers should learn is patience...and then they should learn to never trust their airlock...:D
 
Thanks for posting this BM, I have done this twice I think maybe three times after I switched up to AG. I would recommend everyone try it, just to know what to look for.
 
Do I have to raise the temps of my ales to do it? I've been getting fermentation levels in the really low 60's (like below 65) since I've been playing with harvested pacman yeast (the brewmaster of Rogue likes to ferment pacman @ 60 deg.)

Should I take it out for my chill bath for a couple days at the tail end of fermentation?
 
The biggest thing new brewers should learn is patience...and then they should learn to never trust their airlock...:D

+1

I can't believe how many people think Air Lock is pronounced Hydrometer.

I understand that it's exciting having beer and all...but when your air lock stops bubbling at day #3, brew another batch and leave the first one alone. If people would leave their beer alone for 2 or 3 weeks, this would never be an issue.
 
Great info. I always leave mine in primary two weeks before taking a hydro reading, but it's very nice to know the reasoning/science behind the method.
 
Conversely (to play devil's advocate) I've heard experts say to take the wort off the primary as soon as possible after flocculation to avoid autolysis.

How would one balance this time? What's "too long" and what's "too short" - hypothetically speaking?
 
Conversely (to play devil's advocate) I've heard experts say to take the wort off the primary as soon as possible after flocculation to avoid autolysis.

How would one balance this time? What's "too long" and what's "too short" - hypothetically speaking?

I once left an Oatmeal Stout on the yeast for 45 days. It was one of my cleanest beers to date. Usually I never go more than 35 days though...
 
Conversely (to play devil's advocate) I've heard experts say to take the wort off the primary as soon as possible after flocculation to avoid autolysis.

Wow, noone's brought out the autolysis bogeyman in several months....:D

Is John Palmer an expert enough for you? Here's what he has to say in How To Brew.

As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis.

The yeast have eaten most all of the easily fermentable sugars and now start to turn their attention elsewhere. The yeast start to work on the heavier sugars like maltotriose. Also, the yeast clean up some of the byproducts they produced during the fast-paced primary phase.

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.


I leave mine in for a month, the are better than when I used to secondary...The yeasts do a great job cleaning up after themselves.
 
Conversely (to play devil's advocate) I've heard experts say to take the wort off the primary as soon as possible after flocculation to avoid autolysis.

How would one balance this time? What's "too long" and what's "too short" - hypothetically speaking?

I've only ever seen theoretical discussions of autolysis and untested assumptions that one should avoid it in brewing. All the noteworthy articles I've read have discredited the effects of autolysis in normal brewing conditions and 100% of my personal experience (and anecdotal as well) says that a month plus of primary produces a clean beer.
The diacetyl test is interesting, cause I don't always want to wait that long.
Also, one needs to be careful of confusing commercial brewing considerations with things that are important to homebrewers. Commercial brewers are inherently pushing the parameters on all fronts to minimize time to drinkability while avoiding adverse effects on product quality.

Homebrewers can always wait a few more days.;)
 
All the noteworthy articles I've read have discredited the effects of autolysis in normal brewing conditions

I would like someone to show me a case of Autolysis. I have not ever seen it. I know mead makers and wine makers talk about it....in terms of Months or years on the yeast cake..but I'll bet you will NEVER see it until 6+ Months on a yeast cake...and then it would still take special conditions.
 
Agreed. I almost used the term "experts" instead of experts but i didn't want to make it a quotes laden post. For the record, I'm not on the autolysis band wagon either. Like i said, i just wanted to play devil's advocate.

Shall we talk about hot side aeration instead?
 
I would like someone to show me a case of Autolysis. I have not ever seen it. I know mead makers and wine makers talk about it....in terms of Months or years on the yeast cake..but I'll bet you will NEVER see it until 6+ Months on a yeast cake...and then it would still take special conditions.

I only just realized this week, after many times quoting palmer, that the section of the book in which he discusses it is in the Lager section...Which leads me to believe that it's more apt to be discernable in Lagers, and also that it is something that is of more concern to the large commercial brewers of BMC than to us humble homebrewers.

I bet if we traced the discussion of it to it's original source it would be in commercial brewing trade journals...Think about this, if you are brewing the lightest, fizziest (and tasteless imho) beer possible you'd be hyper concerned with any flavors, off or otherwise. ;)
 
I've had a batch go south due to autolysis from overstressing. I pitched a relatively old slurry, fermented that out and then pitched a new batch on that cake. Man, when you get to smelling autolysized yeast, you don't mistake it and never forget it. Think of what it would smell like if someone ate the entire yeast cake and then threw it all up about an hour later. Yeah. That's it. The amazing thing is, the batch was one of the best after 6 weeks of additional aging. Good thing I didn't dump it.
 
I posted this extract from another website many months ago, but thought it worth repeating. For anybody who has been dinged in a competition for detectable diacetyl levels, or those of you wanting to rush you beers out of the primary…this is a must read.

Yeah. I just opened my first lager the other day. Anyone for a Mid-American Buttered-Popcorn Lager? I did a diacetyl rest, but it was clearly wasn't long enough. This batch will probably be used to fertilize my lawn if my neighbor won't drink it. :(

- Eric
 
So far the only lager I've made that didn't exhibit diacetyl after a 7-10 day primary is when I pitched a massive slurry at BELOW ferment temps.

This is another strategy for dealing with diacetyl in lagers. If you pitch cold and ferment cool little diacetyl is produced and there is no need for a diacetyl rest.

GT
 
This is pretty interesting for a beginner trying to inhale knowledge

SO - for all of you pros out there . . . .

My recipe says 1 or 2 days in the Primary and then 7-10 days in the secondary (Bascom Brown Ale)

My goal was to transfer into the secondary when I was at the 4-5 bubble mark per minute (not sure how long that would be).

If a person leaves the brew in the Primary for lets say a week - how long should it be in the secondary.

This concept intrigues me but I'm unsure of the timing - some of the posters said they leave the brew in the primary for a MONTH - do they NEED a secondary??
 
This is pretty interesting for a beginner trying to inhale knowledge

SO - for all of you pros out there . . . .

My recipe says 1 or 2 days in the Primary and then 7-10 days in the secondary (Bascom Brown Ale)

My goal was to transfer into the secondary when I was at the 4-5 bubble mark per minute (not sure how long that would be).

If a person leaves the brew in the Primary for lets say a week - how long should it be in the secondary.

This concept intrigues me but I'm unsure of the timing - some of the posters said they leave the brew in the primary for a MONTH - do they NEED a secondary??

Toss your instructions, they're written with no thought of making good beer, only rapid turnover of their kits... You don't move your until fermentation's complete (usually 7-10 days), and you don't go by bubbling in the airlock, you go by your hydrometer's reading.

Then when fermentation is complete you have three choices, either rack to secondary to let the beer clear..you can bottle, or you can leave your beer in primary for a few more weeks...I choose to leave mine in primary for 3 weeks to a month, in order for the yeast to clean up after themselves....my beer has improved vastly since I started doing that.

After fermentation is complete, the yeasts go back an eat some of the by products of their fermentation, such as this thread discusses, diacetyl.

Then I skip secondary and bottle...

Like this thread talks about leaving it even a few days after fermentation is complete vastly improves the quality of your beer...as does leaving it in the bottle for more at least 3 weeks.
 
Wow, I've seen some crappy instructions but never any that suggested only 2 days primary. Yikes, sometimes fermentation doesn't even get going for a day or two. I consider racking to secondary after only SEVEN days kinda rushing. I do it when I need the primary for a rare rapid fire second batch but I know I'm going to have to let it age an extra week to make up for it.
 
So you skip the secondary completely? (which would give me a free 5g carboy). Any problems with getting sediment into the bottling process??
 
Wow, I've seen some crappy instructions but never any that suggested only 2 days primary. Yikes, sometimes fermentation doesn't even get going for a day or two. I consider racking to secondary after only SEVEN days kinda rushing. I do it when I need the primary for a rare rapid fire second batch but I know I'm going to have to let it age an extra week to make up for it.

Yeah guess the writer of the instructions never read the "Fermentation can take up to 72 hours to start" sticky.:rolleyes:
 
So you skip the secondary completely? (which would give me a free 5g carboy). Any problems with getting sediment into the bottling process??

Careful racking....the black plastic doohickey on the end of the autosiphon is made to go just above the sediment.

Sediment is not something to fear in homebrewing...that's why you leave a little behind in the bottle in a proper pouring...But I don't get much sediment in my bottles...the stuff in the bottom of theprimary is pretty compact, and I have a dip tube in my bottling bucket, and it prevents a lot of stuff from getting in...
 
Exact wording - perhaps they are only speaking about getting the wort out of plastic as soon as possible???

Place lid on the fermentor. Attach the fermentation lock hafl filled with water. Ferment at 60-25F for 7-10 days. If doing a double stage fermentation, syphon the beer into the glass carboy after 1-2 days in the plastic fermentor(the beer may be transferred to the glass carboy as soon as the foam has fallen far enough so the carboy will not overflow).
 
Exact wording - perhaps they are only speaking about getting the wort out of plastic as soon as possible???


this is probably a response to the fact the the HDPE plastic buckets are gas permeable. this means that once active fermentation is complete the lack of apressure inside the bucket can allow oxygen to migrate through the walls of your bucket and oxidize your beer. this is accelerated by poorly sealing lids and wild tempurature swings.

that being said with most beers 10-14 days in primary with stable temps is not a problem. i've only had problems at 2 wks with small beers or wheats
 
I used to stress big-time about timing.

But I have a busy life, and beer is my hobby, not my full-time job (though I wish it were, some days).

So now, I brew it, ferment it in primary, and leave it for a MINIMUM 3 weeks, realistically I get to it whenever I get to it, and then I keg it and force carb.

I guess if you had a Mild or a Pale Ale or something that was under 1.040 OG, then maybe 2 weeks is fine. But why rush it? You could be brewing more instead. ;)
 
Isn't Autolysis the process of the yeast cells essentially busting open and spilling their guts in the beer?


Pretty good definition...but like Palmer says.

As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis.
 
Pretty good definition...but like Palmer says.

Yeah, Jamil's advice is always to pitch a healthy batch of yeast at the right amount, 3-4 degrees below the ferment temp, ramp up from there to your actual ferment temp and let it sit. With healthy yeast at the proper fermentation temperature, autolysis and diacyetal should be cleaned up by the yeast if given enough time.

From the sounds of it, if everything is done right, Autolysis would be hard to get unless it sat around for a few months.

Does anyone know the impact of hot break on Diacyetal/Autolysis?
 
Okay--another quick question: What if you were to transfer your beer from the primary to the secondary "too early" (e.g., after 6 days). This way, you get the beer off the old yeast, but will the yeast present in the suspension eat up the diacetyl?
 
Okay--another quick question: What if you were to transfer your beer from the primary to the secondary "too early" (e.g., after 6 days). This way, you get the beer off the old yeast, but will the yeast present in the suspension eat up the diacetyl?

I imagine so, it'll just take a lot longer.
 
Slightly off topic: I know people who primary ferment lager stains at ale temps, then cold-condition for a few weeks to promote clarity, etc... I did notice a touch of diacetyl. So, my question is: Can I diacetyl rest be done to remove the buttery flavor, or is that just what you get for fermenting lager strains too high?
 
this is probably a response to the fact the the HDPE plastic buckets are gas permeable. this means that once active fermentation is complete the lack of apressure inside the bucket can allow oxygen to migrate through the walls of your bucket and oxidize your beer. this is accelerated by poorly sealing lids and wild tempurature swings.

that being said with most beers 10-14 days in primary with stable temps is not a problem. i've only had problems at 2 wks with small beers or wheats

I have some buckets that contained long term food storage type foods. They were packed with nitrogen-designed to keep food for looong periods of time. I'm guessing that it would be okay to leave my ales in these primaries for a couple of weeks or so?
 
I am brewing my first lager and the diacetyl doesn't want to go away. I think I underpitched with one packet of Saflager because it took a week before the lager really took off. When it was a little over half done fermenting I pulled it out for a diacetyl rest and let it finish fermenting. It has been done for well over a week but the diacetyl is still strong. I started swirling the ferementer to resuspend the yeast and it seems to have lowered it a bit, but is there just too much diacetyl for the yeast to eat up since I underpitched and created extra diacetyl? Should I just leave it for another week or more to see if it will continue to slowly clear up or am I beyond hope?
 
Give it time.

I too had a diacetyl lager. It's cleaning up in the bottle (months) but it would have been a lot better if I had caught it when there was more yeast to clean it up.
How long is too long? I have never been worried about autolysis but this has been in the primary for well over a month and it sure is taking its time cleaning up this mess.
 

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