Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

haeffnkr said:

I have used both of the approaches... is not getting all the crud off.
I have some old crud on some of these sankes that is on tough.

My keg washer did not even get all the crud off a fresh corny keg.
Apparently you need a BIG motor to make these effective.
Mine does no more than my sink spray faucet.

thanks for the ideas though !
Keep them coming.

Kevin

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Have you tried a pressure washer? Lye?
If none of those work, bail on that keg and get a new one. Once you have a good clean keg, clean it immediately after each use and it will be very easy to clean.
I use a 2' TC cap drilled and tapped to accept a compression coupler for the racking cane and a NPT to accept a T which has a Gas-in post and an adjustable PRV.
Works great, and I would not change a thing.

acidrain said:

Have you tried a pressure washer? Lye?
If none of those work, bail on that keg and get a new one. Once you have a good clean keg, clean it immediately after each use and it will be very easy to clean.
I use a 2' TC cap drilled and tapped to accept a compression coupler for the racking cane and a NPT to accept a T which has a Gas-in post and an adjustable PRV.
Works great, and I would not change a thing.

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I dont have a pressure washer.
I tried drain cleaner which had a lot of lye in it and it did not get this on spot.
I might build some kind of wand to blast high pressure city water up under the lid?

I have this one keg that apparently was never completely clean from when I opened it up months ago and still had 20 year old crud in it.
It has this one spot up under the top that is like some kind of tarnish/corosion/crud stuff, not like normal Krausen.
So last night after finding out that an over night soak in near boiling PBW did not get it all off... I started scrubbing it with my carboy brush and kept sprinkling Bar Keepers Friend on it... and the crud started to come off... so it is soaking again in a weak solution of water and BKF and I will scrub it some more.

Yes... you are right... cleaning the kegs soon as you are done is the key.

thanks Kevin

It sounds like beer stone, you won't get that off without acid. In fact I've read that a combination of certain cleaners can set the beer stone even more.

haeffnkr said:

I dont have a pressure washer.
I tried drain cleaner which had a lot of lye in it and it did not get this on spot.
I might build some kind of wand to blast high pressure city water up under the lid?

I have this one keg that apparently was never completely clean from when I opened it up months ago and still had 20 year old crud in it.
It has this one spot up under the top that is like some kind of tarnish/corosion/crud stuff, not like normal Krausen.
So last night after finding out that an over night soak in near boiling PBW did not get it all off... I started scrubbing it with my carboy brush and kept sprinkling Bar Keepers Friend on it... and the crud started to come off... so it is soaking again in a weak solution of water and BKF and I will scrub it some more.

Yes... you are right... cleaning the kegs soon as you are done is the key.

thanks Kevin

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If you've done that much to it, what exactly are you afraid of?

Get your brew on man.

grathan said:

What about temperature aside. I know you were recommending a specific gauge earlier on, but the link doesn't work anymore. Do you still like that one and know of another one like it?

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All the gauges work the same, like a garden hose faucet. That is why they are hard to adjust to a specific pressure because you could always be as little as a turn to much or a turn to less.

The only way to have a set feature would be a manifold with valves going to separate "known" pressure reliefs. That makes it way to much for something so easy. If you open yours up all the way and start slowly closing it once you smell the gas coming out, I don't see why you can't get it to +_ a couple psi from where you want to be during out gassing.


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BridgesideBrewing said:

If you've done that much to it, what exactly are you afraid of?

Get your brew on man.

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I am afraid of dumping another 10 gallon batch because of an infection.
If I can still see crud...I am not going to use it.

Does beer stone cause infections?

Thanks Kevin

Usually, beer stone forms on the bottom of the keg. It does form other places if not taken care of, but I believe he's got crud from the top that is stuck on. Know that I think about it, I'd get playground sand and some marbles mixed with some of the cleaners he's tried and then roll the keg. That should scrub it real good!


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WortMonger said:

All the gauges work the same, like a garden hose faucet. That is why they are hard to adjust to a specific pressure because you could always be as little as a turn to much or a turn to less.

The only way to have a set feature would be a manifold with valves going to separate "known" pressure reliefs. That makes it way to much for something so easy. If you open yours up all the way and start slowly closing it once you smell the gas coming out, I don't see why you can't get it to +_ a couple psi from where you want to be during out gassing.


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Click to expand...

interesting, I think I could get by with just 2 valves.

Now it is time for me to try.


The fridge that I use is a garden version to chill bottles of beer or soda in, so I welded a form of conical fermenter and use the connectors and lid from a Cornelius keg. I also welded a 1/4 "connection to the adjustable valve.


One connector for gas, one for yeast and one for the beer.
So far, everything works as it should!

I also try to brew a stronger beer when I'm at it. I'll dilute it with sparkling water when I bottle it. From 6.2% ABV to 4.2% ABV

I brew a Lager, why make something easy? Actually, I built the fermenter to brew as I usually do, but then I found this thread and had to try it.

Wish me luck

That's is frickin cool! Show us some pics of the build!

pickles said:

That's is frickin cool! Show us some pics of the build!

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+1

And please include the "garden cooler" you have there.... how does that work?
Ice?

thanks Kevin

Sorry I have no pics from the build.
Not more than this



I testing to have a plastic cone in the bottom so the yeast can be easy collected.
The volym of the fermenter is 30L (8gal)

It´s a Party Cooler. 50L compressor cooler. I found one like mine here http://www.grandpanda.com/
It is adjustable from 0 °C to 16 °C (32°F - 60°F)

Here is my transfer technique....

- Uses half the CO2 of the pressure valve technique
- Set and walk away - finishes on its own
- Works best with "Trub Trap" in ferment keg
- Lift the ferment keg or lower the serve keg
- About 45 minutes with 12 foot lines

It is not quick but is neat, predictable and lets me disappear to do something else for an hour without worrying about missing a step. As I ferment two kegs at once, I can do this while I am brewing the next batch and still relax.

I use 12 foot lines and keep the ferment keg in the chest fermenter. This is all on the back deck, so I put the serving keg a few steps down on ground level. If I didn't have the stairs I would put the serving keg in it final resting place in the kegerator and gently lift the ferment keg to a small platform.

I use a long CO2 line from the kegerator to reach both kegs or a short one from my "paintball" mini-tank.

Tom

Yep, this transferring method is ideal if you have the setup.

Time to join the club.




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jimyson said:

Time to join the club.

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Welcome!

Thanks!

The only thing I am trying to wrap my head around is the best schedule for pressure for an Ale. I see some doing 5 psi for the fir 50% att, some at 10 psi, etc. What's the common approach that people are using?

It's up to you but I would stick with about 10 and then when you are almost done go up to your carbonation pressure at what temperature you are at.


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Makes perfect sense. Thanks again for the awesome thread.

Subbed...This is amazing and I've only read the firs 30 posts or so. Great idea even though I'm a few years behind the curve.

Remember, the pressure at the beginning is just to keep a positive pressure in the fermenter and the little bit extra is to keep the krausen down a bit. Too much and the yeast struggle. I think 7-10 psi is the sweet spot. Towards the end during carbonation, there is a ton of yeast working on not so much sugar so the higher psi is fine. It's the same as if you were bottle conditioning, only you are not having to add anything. I raise my temperature at the carbonation time to also do a diacetyl rest to clean up anything that might have been made during primary. Take the temperature raise in mind when you are trying to get your wanted CO2 volume for carbonation. It's all about the numbers. That way when you crash cool you should be at the lower psi that you want. If you are over, simply release any extra during that cold period.


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Wortmonger - I didn't recall reading that you do a d-rest in the wiki. Whats your preferred ferm schedule with an ale yeast nowadays?

Hey Guys,

I am hoping these new "couplers" will make me better beer... hopefully it was not a waste of money.
With the only thing in the beer but the dip tube and being able to pull off the gas side and wash/sanitize it all easier I hope to fend off any nasties that might be stuck in the coupler/spear.

Also, even though I got the hang of the sanke spring clips and could install/remove them in seconds... WOW using a tri clamp is so easy.

Comments welcome

Beer had a bubbler in it and was rolling so I installed this last night and had 5 pounds of pressure this morning. I will crank it up tonight.








thanks Kevin

I don't think I did a d-rest back when I wrote that so many years ago. I bump the temp to get the yeast to work a little more at the end now. It's just a precaution I take to make sure and I think it helps out so I just made it mandatory in my system. Ales are usually a couple days at primary then I bump up temp and pressure. I don't think I have ever gone over a week total on an ale before I crash for a week and then transfer. I don't brew high abv so there isn't a lot for the yeast to do. Kolsch is up next! Can't wait. Simple SMaSH weyermann pilsner and tettnanger. I'm going to toast a pound slightly just for a little more complexity.


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Do you put the spunding valve on from the moment you pitch yeast or wait? You must with that quick turnaround.

Yes, the valve is on from the moment I seal the keg up after filling.


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Ok, how are you all handling dry hopping?

I'm hitting 50% att right now and would like to drop some hops in for my DH schedule. It's currently sitting at 10 psi. Do I need to slowly decompress, DH, then ramp back up?

I had a thought about dry hopping. WOuldn't work in a sanke but perhaps a brewhemoth.

A cup held in place with magnets inside the fermenter that you pull the magnet away when you want the cup to drop.

I guess my main concern is depressurizing the keg...can it be done too fast that I make the yeast implode? I'm not too worried about anything else really.

Depressurize over a few minutes and everything will be fine.

As to dry hopping - I've done it in my brewhemoth and it worked fine. However, the beauty of this technique is that the beer will never touch O2 if you plan things right. I now dry hop in cornies. I place the hops in a clean cornie then purge with co2, hook up my spunding valve to the gas in of the cornie and counter pressure fill it. I use a bathroom scale tared to the weight of the cornie, hops, and spunding valve; I fill til the keg weighs 38lbs. I usually leave the hops in until the keg kicks, but if I wanted to I could push the beer to another purged cornie or back to the purged fermenter after dry hop is complete.

Great technique pickles. I think I will try this instead.


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Ok guys I could really use some help. I've had a leak in my spunding valve since the beginning and I would really like to figure out how to open up and clean it.

Its been referenced that its easy and you just open one screw and you can clean it. I'm not seeing any such screw and I have the recommended mcmaster model. Could you guys help me figure out how to dissasemble this thing? Here's some pics for reference

Where is the leak? It looks like the round part comes off when you loosen the screws on the square part. You might bend the retaining washer, but you should be able to get it fairly flat again with a slight tap of a hammer.

grathan said:

Where is the leak? It looks like the round part comes off when you loosen the screws on the square part. You might bend the retaining washer, but you should be able to get it fairly flat again with a slight tap of a hammer.

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No idea where the leak is, I imagine its coming from the air out port.

There are no screws on the square part, it's just empty holes.

You may want to try isolating components from a pressurized tank so you can essentially remove certain items from the "potential" list.

jimyson said:

You may want to try isolating components from a pressurized tank so you can essentially remove certain items from the "potential" list.

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I've reduced the parts as much as I can without having to buy more things. I'm pretty sure at this point its the relief valve, and either way it needs to be opened and cleaned.

Anyone bought a pressure relief from amazon I see a lot on there cheaper than the McMasterCar one.


Control Devices CR Series Brass Pressure Relief Valve, 0-100 psi Adjustable Pressure Range, 1/4" Male NPT https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007GDY3CU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

For the price I've got 2 of those. Gonna isolate each with a ball valve as wortmonger suggested and have 2 set pressures to choose from without adjusting dials.

Haven't used them yet because I'm waiting for my tig welding skills to handle not burning a hole in a $24 thermowell, but now that I think of it, I could probably just make another thermowell even if I do for probably $2.

I've used that style of regulator and it isn't very reliable. Mine constantly leaked. The balks plastic one is well worth the money.

thefost said:

No idea where the leak is, I imagine its coming from the air out port.

There are no screws on the square part, it's just empty holes.

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What about the stem? Can you take that apart. That washer looks like it comes out..