First attempt at a CDA/BIPA

This is my first attempt at a CDA/BIPA. I used BrewTarget to formulate the recipe. (see attached)

The main concern I have is about the IBUs. Does this hop schedule seem appropriate for the style? If I change the LME to a late addition the software more that doubles the IBUs.

Should I increase the hop additions (more $$$), do I move the LME to a late addition (15 minute boil) and adjust the hops accordingly or just go with the original and see what happens?

Thanks!

View attachment CDA.pdf

Just a thought: You might get more feedback if you post the recipe. People will be less inclined to download the pdf.

In my opinion, your IBUs are too low for a CDA. Also, you have a lot of different kinds of dark roasts... you're going to overpower the hops with a muddled roast flavor.

Keep it simple on the roasts. I have an all-cascade CDA recipe that's really simple: 12# 2-row, 1.6# Crystal 60L, 1# Dehusked Carafa II (400L) and it allows everything to shine through.

Reno_eNVy said:

In my opinion, your IBUs are too low for a CDA. Also, you have a lot of different kinds of dark roasts... you're going to overpower the hops with a muddled roast flavor.

Keep it simple on the roasts. I have an all-cascade CDA recipe that's really simple: 12# 2-row, 1.6# Crystal 60L, 1# Dehusked Carafa II (400L) and it allows everything to shine through.

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I can't see the op's recipe, but I disagree with your recipe formulation strategy completely (I also disagree with calling a black IPA a cda, but that is a different rant).

When I think of a black IPA, I want to know that there are roasted malts present, and want to be able to taste them. When I brewed mine I used lots of flavorful roasted malts in the recipe, coffee malt, chocolate wheat malt, some crystal, and a touch of carafa III. Then to balance it out I upped the hop bill to increase the ibu's and give it balance. It came out delicious, gorgeous roast character followed by some great hop presence. That is what I look for in a black IPA, not just a darker version of an IPA.

I would drop the special roast, but I don't see anything wrong with that recipe. Looks fine, brew away.

Sorry about the PDF...Here is the recipe. This is a partial mash and a partial boil - still in the kitchen. My concern was the computed IBU (BrewTarget), I thought they were low at 42.5.

2.0# 2 Row (mashed)
1.0# Munich (mashed)
0.5# Crystal 60L (mashed)
0.5# Special Roast (mashed)
1.0# Carafa III (stepped for color)
4.0# LME

1.0 oz Magnum (60 min)
1.0 oz Simcoe (45 min)
0.5 oz Amarillo (20 min)
0.5 oz Willamette (20 min)
0.5 oz Amarillo (5 min)
0.5 oz Willamette (5 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (dry hop)

WLP001 - California Ale Yeast


Partial Mash/Batch Sparge

1.25 mash thickness, hold for 60 min at 154 deg, batch sparge to get to my boil volume

HollisBT said:

I can't see the op's recipe, but I disagree with your recipe formulation strategy completely (I also disagree with calling a black IPA a cda, but that is a different rant).

When I think of a black IPA, I want to know that there are roasted malts present, and want to be able to taste them. When I brewed mine I used lots of flavorful roasted malts in the recipe, coffee malt, chocolate wheat malt, some crystal, and a touch of carafa III. Then to balance it out I upped the hop bill to increase the ibu's and give it balance. It came out delicious, gorgeous roast character followed by some great hop presence. That is what I look for in a black IPA, not just a darker version of an IPA.

Click to expand...

Yeah it sounds pretty good but I just don't think a CDA should have coffee taste or even a dominant roastiness. I don't want a citrus-hoppy forward stout

I would go with late addition of the extract myself and work from there. I dont have enough experience brewing to speak to the grain bill, but as a beer drinker I want my CDA to have at least a bit of that dark/roast taste. I'm working on an extract CDA recipe right now myself and am using 10% caramel 40l, 8.5% Carafa III, and 1.5% roasted barley. My SRM is projected at about 40.

One of the greatest things about beer/brewing is that every has their own different tastes and preferences, neither of which are wrong

My favorite black ipa's (again, NOT cda, I am not talking anything cascadian, but rather a roasted version of an IPA) have had rather prominent roast notes, that played along great with the hops. In my opinion if you can close your eyes and can't pick out any roast flavor in the brew, you are just brewing for color, and what is the point in that? I want my black ipa's to taste roasty so I know it's not just a regular IPA with some color added to it.

But again, to each their own :cheers:

Don't want to stray too far off topic, just will say that I prefer CDA. I think beer styles traditionally are associated with their place of origin... also a black pale ale is ridiculous. But it's all been said before. To the OP, let us know however you decide to brew your final recipe and how it turns out. :rockin:

HollisBT said:

One of the greatest things about beer/brewing is that every has their own different tastes and preferences, neither of which are wrong

My favorite black ipa's (again, NOT cda, I am not talking anything cascadian, but rather a roasted version of an IPA) have had rather prominent roast notes, that played along great with the hops. In my opinion if you can close your eyes and can't pick out any roast flavor in the brew, you are just brewing for color, and what is the point in that? I want my black ipa's to taste roasty so I know it's not just a regular IPA with some color added to it.

But again, to each their own :cheers:

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Oh I'm not trying to say one way or another. Just my $0.02. And I will agree with you, though: CDA = darker malt flavor but not roasty, west-coast hops; BIPA = roasty coffee flavors

LOL now people are differentiating between the two? I would think if anything CDA would be more roasted coffee flavors as that tends to be more in line with the Cascadian palette. And where does an IBA fall on the scale?

baldben said:

LOL now people are differentiating between the two? I would think if anything CDA would be more roasted coffee flavors as that tends to be more in line with the Cascadian palette. And where does an IBA fall on the scale?

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They are all the same. Quotes from the following link from BYO.
Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Birth of a New Style: Cascadian Dark Ale - Issues

*It was agreed that one of the key characteristics of this style was that the dark malts are so subdued that, if you closed your eyes during a sip, you would not suspect that the beer was black.

*By the end of the tasting, the guidelines were finalized and Abram forwarded these to the BA and BJCP. In a letter dated February 11th sent from Chris Swersey, competition manager of the GABF, the good news was received. Charlie Papazian had completed the style update for 2010 and included this new style. The name “Cascadian” was deleted as it was felt that non-Northwestern brewers may be turned off to the style if it hinted of regional exclusivity. The accepted name is American-Style India Black Ale. The style descriptors remained relatively unchanged but some of the basic specifications were scaled back. Here are the finalized GABF numbers:

Color = 25+ SRM
Original Gravity = 1.056–1.075
Final Gravity = 1.012–1.018
Bitterness = 50–70 IBU
Alcohol by volume = 6–7.5%

The BJCP does not update their style guidelines yearly, as the GABF does, and Cascadian dark ale has not been accepted as an official BJCP beer style. Unofficial feedback from BJCP officials indicates that, if examples of this beer start showing up at homebrew contests at a reasonable frequency, it could be included in the next style guideline revisions. (If you choose to compete with this style, enter it in Category 23 and describe the beer as a Cascadian dark ale, an India Black Ale or Black IPA.)

wolverinebrewer:

Thanks, interesting read. In the proposed style guidelines toward the top the aroma does mention hints of roast and flavor subdued roast, which I'd prefer to see in the BJCP guidelines. Small but still present amounts of roast flavors, though not to the level indicative of a black beer, so that the eyes closed test would still be passed.

As it relates to the OP's recipe, the use of special roast would seem appropriate as it's used in the Widmer 10 clone.

Might try to work it into my recipe as well.

Based on availability of ingredients at my LHBS here is the recipe that I brewed on Monday.

3.0# 2 Row (mashed)
1.0# Munich (mashed)
0.5# Crystal 60L (mashed)
0.5# Aromatic (mashed)
1.0# Carafa II (mashed)
3.0# LME - Light
3.0# LME - Amber

2.0 oz Magnum (60 min)
1.0 oz Simcoe (45 min)
0.5 oz Amarillo (20 min)
0.5 oz Willamette (20 min)
0.5 oz Amarillo (5 min)
0.5 oz Willamette (5 min)
1.0 oz Amarillo Whole Leaf (dry hop)

WLP001 - California Ale Yeast

The color appeared more like a deep brown but I have a better look when I move to secondary. The OG came in at 1.069.

Bubbling like crazy this morning, so far so good.

I will have pictures and tasting notes in about 3 weeks.

Thanks for all the input...

Cheers!

As promised here are a few picture. Lost a fair amount of beer due to the amount of hop gunk that ended up in the primary (as compared to the chinook ipa on the right). Will keg next week.