Montanaandy
Well-Known Member
I use a specific gravity refractometer that I got from Austin Home Brewing. Montanaandy
Wyeast 3711 -- I'm officially impressed
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I use a specific gravity refractometer that I got from Austin Home Brewing. Montanaandy
android
Well-Known Member
nice! it's actually just a new belgium glass with the old logo facing outward. i got them at the brewery a while back when i was living in colorado. but i'm sure you can get them online. i have a ton of glasses and i must say i normally prefer using a NB glass for most, especially the first time i try a beer.
Montanaandy
Well-Known Member
I too use the NB glasses. NB was practically giving them away this past Fall. If you purchased a case of NB beer you could purchase a set of 2 glasses for about $2 each by going on their website and entering the batch code which they required. I don't know if they are still running this offer. Wonderful beer glasses. I ended up purchasing 6 and these are what I use to enjoy my HB every night. Montanaandy
Friend called and said the 3711 had his saison down to 1.002. He's bottling now. He used sugar in his recipe and now has jet fuel.
smellysell
Well-Known Member
Sounds like it might be a good thing I forgot to add the sugar in mine then. It got down to 1.004 without it.
ChshreCat
Well-Known Member
I use 1 lb of sugar in mine. Last time it went from 1.067 to 1.000 and you couldn't taste any alcohol in it.
smellysell
Well-Known Member
Drinking my first saison I've made with this, and though it was a beast as advertised, it's pretty bland. I fermented it around 60 since the ferm chamber was tied up with a couple lagers, so that might be part of the reason. I'll do one more at around 70 or so and if I'm not a lot more impressed, I'll stick with 565, though I have one going with 566 right now that smells promising...
ChshreCat
Well-Known Member
Could be the low temp. Mine had always been nicely spicy.
Chshre, maybe I missed it in an earlier post but what temp range are you fermenting at? Fwiw our heat index is still in the high 90s here most days, was 98 2 days ago, so I'm thinking of throwing mine in my fairly well insulated storage room which stays cooler than ambient during the day & warmer than ambient at night.
I'm totally unfamiliar with Saisons, having had only 1 commercial example I think. I can go to bjcp for guidelines & reference Jamil's stuff, but where are some other recipe info etc for the style? I'm probably going to use 3711 or a combo strain, not 3724 on my first attempt at the style. I'm also going to shoot for a small bier with a 1.033-1.038 OG, perhaps mash at 154-155 to try and get some body out of this beast of a yeast by hopefully having the all malt wort finish at 1.003 or 1.004. Any guidance would be appreciated!
Schlante,
Phillip
Off to the recipe database...
I fermented my first one in the 85 range and the second one (wheat based on the yeast cake) around 80. The higher temp did in fact bring out more spiciness and almost a funk. The first one I did was pretty close to Foret in a side by side tasting.
smellysell
Well-Known Member
I'd mash at 150 or even a little lower. This yeast actually leaves a lot of body (more than I personally want in a saison), despite being a monster.
ChshreCat
Well-Known Member
I just go with room temp, putting the ferementer in a tub of water to add thermal mass to try to even out the swings between day and night. It was in the 90's when I brewed one last summer. My most recent one was in the 70's for the first week of fermentation.
after hearing so many good things about 3711 i decided to give it a try. OG of 1.058 with 2 lbs honey. no yeast nutrients. brewed 9/30, over 3 weeks ago and the SG is still only 1.010. used a 1L starter and temp has been fluctuating btwn 65-75* (room temp). i just racked to secondary and i couldn't believe the SG is so high with adjuncts in it! that's over 3 weeks and still not nearly as dry as i thought it would be based on others experiences. i am in the 80% attenuation zone, though, and it does say btwn 77-82% iirc.
whatta think? rouse the yeast? leave it be? dump it:cross: maybe racking it will give it that extra umph, especially with the help of this indian summer? is it acceptable to bottle with that high of a SG with this yeast or is that asking for trouble?
whatta think? rouse the yeast? leave it be? dump it:cross: maybe racking it will give it that extra umph, especially with the help of this indian summer? is it acceptable to bottle with that high of a SG with this yeast or is that asking for trouble?
android
Well-Known Member
hmm... try rousing it and see what happens, if it's done, it's done I guess.
ChshreCat
Well-Known Member
Warm that puppy up! This is a saison, after all.
dcHokie
Well-Known Member
I moved a 3711 brew from a stable 68-70 environment to the warmest room in the house. I wrapped a fleece jacket, and a down jacket around the carboy, closed the A/C vent in the room and turned on 3 lamps w/ standard bulbs. put a towel under the door jam and had the room up to 90 in one day. carboy temp jumped to 80 over 2 days, and I held it around that temp for 1 week. turned out really nice.
bh10
Well-Known Member
Just made a Saison, even just with a smack pack, no starter, this yeast was up and going in less than 12hrs, and w/out a doubt the most vigerous fermentation Ive seen. For the past two days it looks like the wort is boiling. This is at 66-67* also.
bh10
Well-Known Member
Just to update just like the OP, mine went from 1.054 to 1.002, I was going for a 5.5% beer, now I got about a 7% beer
Samples tasted amazing to, little heavy on the bubble gum flavor, but I dig it. 
Montanaandy
Well-Known Member
Be careful with this yeast. I just made a Belgian Tripel IPA. It's gone from 1.082 to 1.007 in 16 days. It might still be dropping. I know for a fact that it has dropped from 1.013 to 1.007 in the last 6 days.
I would consider skipping the sugar addition on a saison or belgian. Or mash high. Or both. My tripel is starting to get a slight alcohol bite that I'm not really happy about. I really hope it is done (it's almost at 10% ABV - ugh). My recipe has 9% beet sugar.
Unfortunately, I did a double infusion mash to maximize the fermentability. Woops.
Also, this yeast seems to be a very poor flocculator. I cold crash and gelatin, so I know I'll be able to knock it down. But for others who don't, there might be a long period for clearing. Of course, since it is still (apparently ) fermenting, I guess I shouldn't expect the yeast to have dropped yet.
Here's a picture of a saison I made with this yeast. You can see that it did not clear well (but is a very fine drink... take my word for it). I don't believe I used gelatin on this beer
The alcohol bite that you refer to must have happened to my batch because unfortunately it turned out horrible. There is a harsh taste that is really nasty. Really the 1st batch that I have ever brewed that I just could not drink. Brewed it back in Juyly - I kept giving it time, giving it time but finally I pulled it from the keezer and left it to sit on the basement floor (still cannot throw it out yet) where it remains.
Not certain exactly what happened - most likely I brought the fermentation temp up too high because I was in the 80's (Wyeast recommends no higher than 77'). I did use Sorachi Ace at the end of the boil and that too may have contributed.
Ironically, I had a terrible time with 3724 getting it to atteunate and swore that I would never subject myself to that yeast again. However the Saison brewed with the 3724 turned out really well.
I do plan on brewing a traditional Saison using 3711 in the future and I will watch my temps more closely next time. Montanaandy
I made a Duvel clone with 3711 that I gave away. My buddy loved it, but I couldn't finish 1. I made a 10g batch, so he was happy. It ended at 11%.
My saissons are tastey and drinkable, but they would have been better if I had NOT added sugar.
Austin_
Well-Known Member
Had the same thing happen to me with this yeast the first time I used it. The dryness with the higher ABV made it an excellent sipping beer. Not what I expected from the original recipe, but I'm not complaining.
What do you guys think about making a stout with this yeast? I'm mostly attracted to the high attenuation, silky texture and the spicy/earthy character talked about in this thread, though I'm not too sure about the citrus character. I'm aiming for about 1.080, hoping to get good efficiency. Think it would be confusing?
I've been wanting to use this strain since I did a saison last year with 568. I should have it tomorrow and I plan on brewing a very simple saison recipe up on friday. I'm really looking forward to having this on hand for the spring and beginning of summer.
I think its a great idea. I love crossbreed styles and some of my favorite stouts I've had use citrusy hops as well.
Well, Imperial cream stout with 3711 is in the bucket. OG of 1.080, with a pound of lactose. I'm going to do rum oak cubes, cocoa nibs and turkish coffee in secondary. The airlock smells like bananas, so we'll see how this baby comes out.
Montanaandy
Well-Known Member
Sounds very interesting. Let us know how this one turns out.
That sounds like it will be a flavor explosion. Definitely let us know how it comes out.
I'm fermenting my first 3711 saison right now. I'm also curious what other beers I can make with the yeast.
I have one finishing up right now after a week. It's almost done and while it was going the room smelled like a candy store. It's an awesome yeast as far as I can tell. I top cropped a mason jar worth to use in another beer in the very near future.
Homebrewtastic
Well-Known Member
I've made black saison before. It was really good. The base malt was Belgian pils, some honey malt. Crystal 40L, 60L and special b. Light chocolate malt, chocolate wheat and a small amount of rye. Hopped it with saaz. A first wort hop and a flame out addition, if memory serves.
I used the dupont strain on it, but have been dying to make it again with the 3711.
I'm a convert now. I just tasted the hydro sample after 10 days. 3711 took my 1.046 wort down to 1.002 with no simple sugar in the recipe. Pretty impressive! And impressive esters considering the bulk of fermentation was at 66F. I ramped it to 75 after it dropped to 1.016 to let it finish off.
I made slants with this strain. I'll have to make a black saison next. That sounds awesome!
I made slants with this strain. I'll have to make a black saison next. That sounds awesome!
Montanaandy
Well-Known Member
I finally got around to brewing another Saison with 3711. My first experience with this yeast was not a good one - I likely fermented too high and the beer in the end was lousy. Since I attributed this to operator error, I had to given this yeast another chance given all of the accolades it has been given. Brewed another Saison and upped the grain bill in lieu of a sucrose addition. Kept the temps where they were supposed to be this time. Having a taste tonight - add me (finally) to the list of those impressed. Really nice Saison. OK, I will admit that it may be missing some of the tasting notes produced using 3724 but it is SO MUCH EASIER to use than the fickle 3724 and I don't feel that there is a big enough of a difference to warrant using 3724 for Saison's unless you want the colossal headache that you will encounter using 3724. I won't necessarily stop using 3724 but it will be an occasional thing from here on in...
^^^ How high did you let it go? What temps did you use the second time around?
Montanaandy
Well-Known Member
I made certain to keep it no higher than the mid 70's this time around. Wyeast puts the top temp at 77'F and I tried to keep it around 75'F. I also upped the grain bill rather than adding sugar and I believe that this may have helped too.
heywolfie1015
Well-Known Member
My experience with this strain supports this. 3711 is not a strain that needs simple sugars to dry the beer out, and simple sugar additions will increase the chance of off flavors dramatically.
Hi All,
I plan on using this yeast on Saturday to do a... Citrusy Belgian IIPA?
Recipe:
12 lbs American Two Row Pale
3 lbs Light Dry Extract
1 lb Crystal Malt – 30L
1 lb Caramunich
3 oz Columbus @ 60 mins
2 oz Cascade @ 10 mins
2 oz Cascade @ 0 minutes
2 oz Cascade tea
2 oz Dry Hop Cascade
1 pack Wyeast French Saison 3711 started up to 0.9 gallons or so.
Thoughts?
I plan on using this yeast on Saturday to do a... Citrusy Belgian IIPA?
Recipe:
12 lbs American Two Row Pale
3 lbs Light Dry Extract
1 lb Crystal Malt – 30L
1 lb Caramunich
3 oz Columbus @ 60 mins
2 oz Cascade @ 10 mins
2 oz Cascade @ 0 minutes
2 oz Cascade tea
2 oz Dry Hop Cascade
1 pack Wyeast French Saison 3711 started up to 0.9 gallons or so.
Thoughts?
Not to deter you, but I don't think you'll have enough body in this beer to make it balance out the bitterness, especially when the bitterness is columbus. A high columbus bitterness with a super dry finish is going to be hard to drink. If I was set on doing something like this, I'd choose the least attenuative Belgian strain (they all tend to attenuate above 80%).
Interesting, thanks. At 81% efficiency, this will finish at 1.020. I would think that would still be plenty of body.
But perhaps Ill cut the columbus back to 2ozs.
Any other opinions?
I got 93.4%AA on my most recent beer with this yeast. The OG was 1.064 and it didn't even break a sweat.
Assuming you're only doing 5 gallons instead of 6 with that grain bill you're still well with in what this yeast can do it seems. You'll have some FG for sure because of the 30L and the Caramunich but most everything else will be eaten up and turned into alcohol.
Assuming you're only doing 5 gallons instead of 6 with that grain bill you're still well with in what this yeast can do it seems. You'll have some FG for sure because of the 30L and the Caramunich but most everything else will be eaten up and turned into alcohol.
