Witbier Turned Sour in Bottle

I'm a long time lurker on this site, and not an absolute newbie to brewing, but still pretty new. I have done several 2.5 gallon batches with a friend starting out with a Mr. Beer kit and continuing to use the Mr. Beer fermenter with ingredients from a LHBS.

I moved a few months ago and just brewed my first solo batch. It was a kit from the LHBS for a witbier, mostly LME with 1lb of corn sugar and some steeping grains plus the spices and a packet of T-58 yeast.

I realized that my hydrometer was broken on brew day and wasn't able to get an OG for the brew, but the kit says it should have been 1.051. I fermented in a bucket in a swamp cooler, keeping the fermenter temp in the mid-upper 60s for the first week and low 70s after that.

After 12 days the SG was down to 1.008 steadily for 3 days, so I bottled it. I racked it to another bucket, primed the 5 gallons with 4.25 oz of corn sugar dissolved in little more than a cup of boiling water, and bottled with an auto-siphon and bottling wand (don't have a bottling bucket). Even though I transferred it off the trub, I ended up stirring up a lot of sediment that went into the bottles (little less than 1/4 inch in bottom of bottle after a week). I used mostly 22s but a couple 12s as well.

I put the bottles in the closet that stays between 70-75 degrees. In the smaller batches I brewed with a friend, I never tried the beer before a minimum of 2 weeks, but this time I wanted to taste the progression as it conditioned. I chilled one for 24 hours after 4 days conditioning and tried it. It was SOUR and not much carbonation. I tried another one today (8 days carbing) and it was the same taste, it has a little better carbonation, but not pouring any head.

The sour flavor is kind of like very tart fruit, and that is all I can really taste except for some of the flavors I expect from a wit in the finish. I can't really tell if it is a vinegar taste or not like I have read others say is a sign of infection. When I took SG readings and even on bottling day, the beer tasted exactly like I expected and not sour at all. I am meticulous about sanitizing and sanitized all of the equipment and bottles with star-san. I also noticed today that there is a faint ring in the neck of the 12oz bottles at the top of the beer, but I can't tell if it's there in the 22oz bottles.

So after that novel, does it sound like I have an infection, or is this a flavor that will go away even though it's really strong right now? I'm sure everyone asks these questions, and I hate being "that guy" but I don't know what may have gone wrong.

Not positive, but I think ring on the neck is a bad sign.

Sounds like either bacterial infection or yeast flavors produced from you bottle conditioning. if your as maticulous about cleaning as you say you are my bet is bacterial. But let it sit and see what it turn into. I made a whit fine when it went in the bottle, rank in my opionion when it came out from the carbing conditioning that occurred in the bottle. More advanced brewers said it was fine. I could not stand it and gave the beer to them in exchange fr various brews.

Sounds like you need to wait another two weeks.

I attempted to make a Belgian witbier allgrain in June. It's been bottled for almost 3 months and it sounds just like yours. Real sour, unpleasant taste and smell. Smells worse than it tastes, almost like rotten oranges or something along those lines. I think we used way too much orange peel and had a possible infection, although I have no rings around the neck. I've been hoping they will get better, but after 3 months, I'm about ready to dump them so i can make a new batch....

The ring at the top of the bottle isn't a concern. It's kinda like the ring left in the fermenter but on a smaller scale. more gunk in the bottle = more gunk to get stuck to the sides.

If you get a sour apple taste with no odor, it is probably just green beer. After only 4 days in the bottle, the yeast are still cleaning up from their mini-fermentation from the priming sugar. If you weren't sampling so early, you probably would have missed this phase entirely.

If you let it sit and it gets worse and worse and starts to smell, it is an infection.

Thanks for the replies. I will just let it go for a couple weeks and see how it goes. If the flavor sticks around and doesn't get nasty, I'll still drink it. Till then, I guess I'll just have to drink some more craft beer and plan my next brew.

billl said:

The ring at the top of the bottle isn't a concern. It's kinda like the ring left in the fermenter but on a smaller scale. more gunk in the bottle = more gunk to get stuck to the sides.

If you get a sour apple taste with no odor, it is probably just green beer. After only 4 days in the bottle, the yeast are still cleaning up from their mini-fermentation from the priming sugar. If you weren't sampling so early, you probably would have missed this phase entirely.

If you let it sit and it gets worse and worse and starts to smell, it is an infection.

Click to expand...

I agree with this brewer.... I have had some stuff that was funky get better as it conditions... If it does not you have an infection somewhere.

You say you sanitized good but make sure you also cleaned good and RINSED GOOD too...

you might be tasting yeast, aka "yeast bite".

when you are ready to taste your next bottle, chill it in the fridge for 72 hours before drinking. this will help the yeast settle to the bottom of the bottle. pour carefully and be sure to leave a 1/2" of beer in the bottle (or stop pouring when you see the yeast starting to flow out).

(dubbel post, please ignore)

It occurred to me today that it has been a long time since I've had an actual Belgian witbier so I picked up a pack of Hoegaarden on my way home from work. I guess I was expecting more Blue Moon flavor out of my beer, but it's definitely more Hoegaarden just with more tartness. Here's hoping mine mellows out and tastes like that.

2 weeks in bottle and same story. Still really tart, but the flavor isn't any stronger than it was a week ago, just not any weaker either. Still fizzy with absolutely no head and no gushers or bottle bombs so I'm not as leery of infection as I was. Just not sure where I went wrong since it didn't develop the taste until in the bottles. I've got my next batch, a partial mash pumpkin ale, in the same fermenter now, hopefully it is more successful.

After a month in the bottle they are still tasting fairly sour, although better than at first. So it's not getting worse, but very slow getting better. I'm not sure there is any difference this week vs 2 weeks ago. It's still not really drinkable. It also is still not very carbonated despite using about 4.25oz corn sugar boiled in water to prime. It's got carbonation, but it's more fizzy and doesn't even remotely form a head. I guess I will just chalk this one up to some unknown newbie error and hope that the 2 beers I have going right now, waiting until I finish my kegerator, don't end up sour as well.

Is there any chance that this may have been a Brett infection? Or would I have other signs other than the sour taste? Since it was fine before going into the bottles, it would have to have been picked up in my siphon and tubing that was brand new, cleaned, and sanitized.

Are you able to post your recipe? Maybe we can help find the flavor source.

Cincy17 said:

Is there any chance that this may have been a Brett infection? Or would I have other signs other than the sour taste? Since it was fine before going into the bottles, it would have to have been picked up in my siphon and tubing that was brand new, cleaned, and sanitized.

Click to expand...

It might have come from there, but not necessarily. It is just as possible that the bug was already present in the fermentor, but that it hadn't progressed far enough to be detectable.

I'd also like to see the recipe. Wits are often designed to be a touch tart, and many recipes will add lactic acid or acidulated malt. That could definitely be a "tart fruit" kind of tone.

It is also possible that in two or three months it might really turn around. Then again it might not, no harm in aging it for a few months just in case.

It was an extract kit from the LHBS. The flavor appeared or became detectable within a 3 day period between bottling and sampling the first bottle.

6lb Wheat LME
1lb Corn Sugar
0.25lb Carafoam
1oz Golding Hops (60 min)
0.5oz Saaz Hops (15 min)
0.75oz Ground Coriander (10 min)
0.25oz Dried Sweet Orange Peel (10 min)
T-58 Yeast

Fermented for just under 2 weeks in a water bath that read around 65 for the first week and around 70 after that. I bottled when SG was steady around 1.008 in 3 readings over a 4 day period. It is kind of carbed weird too. Sort of undercarbed, but fizzy with lots of little bubbles and won't pour a head of any kind for anything.

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to let it sit and age and hope it turns around. I have tried about 1 a week since I bottled it 5 weeks ago and it has mellowed some, but it's still definitely sour/tart. I just want to try to figure out what happened so I can try to prevent it in the future. I have a pumpkin ale in a secondary right now that was in the same fermenter for 2 weeks and racked with the same tubing and siphon I used with the Wit and so far it is excellent.