BadgerBrigade
Well-Known Member
Anyone make any Perry's?
Anyone ever tried this?
Anyone ever tried this?
DroolingNeoBrewery said:its hard to find perry pear juice in north america because perry pears are nearly inedible until they are mashed/pupped up, aged and juiced like cider apples are. Even then the juice is very bitter until its fermented out. Since the primary pear market here is for eating and canning perry pears are not grown commercially here.
LeBreton said:Whoa, lotta misinformation flying around this thread.
It is totally possible to carb cider in glass bottles safely, doesn't have to be a dry cider either. Research the use of unfermentable sugars or bottle pasteurization via the sticky at the top of the cider section. People have been sparkling cider & perry in bottles for hundreds of years. There is even evidence that in-bottle carbonation developed specifically for cider.
Don't get too hung up on malo-lactic fermentation when it comes to perry. While it can be a great tool when used in moderation, it is in no way necessary to make a delicious pear cider.
LeBreton said:Adding sugar to a fruit juice based product to increase the ABV is called 'capitalization', and the amount of chapitalization depends on what the original gravity of the juice is, balanced by your desired ABV, how much original fruit flavor you want to retain, and how long you will have to age the product if dry or how much backsweetening will have to occur. The more sugar added originally, the higher the ABV, the less fruit flavor, and the boozier your cider/perry will taste before aging or the more you will have to backsweeten if you want it young. With less sugar added, you get a lower ABV, more flavor from your fruit, and a lighter drink that will be ready dryer sooner or will need less backsweetening.
I'm something of a purist (for the US ) and don't like to add sugar when I can avoid it. When raw sugar ferments, the alcohol produced creates a very different tasting, thin, and rather harsh booze when compared to fruit juice fermentation.
If my first readings are in the 1.050 - 1.060 range then I don't add any sugar since it'll be in the 6.5%-8% range. If the OG is below 1.050 then rather than using sugar I'll raise it by adding apple concentrate.
Here's a nice chapitalization calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/chaptalization-calculator/
and an SG to Brix converter: http://www.brewersfriend.com/brix-converter/
Fossey said:I put down 1 gallon yesterday using 100% pear juice, thick and cloudy juice too.
I have previously fermented a similar cloudy apple juice and added 250 grams of dark brown sugar. After primary, I topped up with about a 1.3 litres of the 100% pear juice. Early tastings had a really nice honey flavour coming through the dry cider and I'm hoping it will develop nicley with a bit more age. The apple final product is in the vicinity of 9% (the OG was 1070, FG 996, 1000 after secondary with top up), which I bottled.
I used 200 grams of dark brown sugar in the pear yesterday and the OG was 1065. I used EC-1118 in both.
Fossey said:4 cups = 1litre
Cups measure volume not weight so depending on which sugar you use, 1 cup can have varying weights.
28 grams= 1 ounce
6 gallons = about 24 litres
and yes, 2 cups to 3 gallons if equal to 4 cups in 6 gallons, as long as you are using same sugar type.
You would be fairly safe using same amount of sugar for apple and pear. Again, it depends on the OG of the juice alone and how alcoholic you want it.
It is totally possible to carb cider in glass bottles safely, doesn't have to be a dry cider either. Research the use of unfermentable sugars or bottle pasteurization via the sticky at the top of the cider section. People have been sparkling cider & perry in bottles for hundreds of years. There is even evidence that in-bottle carbonation developed specifically for cider.
Thanks LeBreton!
I had a feeling because I bottle carbonated before. And all the guys at the brew shop said it was totally okay as long as I fermented the cider out all the way
So if I'm doing 2 gallons of pear juice and 1 gallon of apple how much sugar should I add?
& in my 6 gallons of apple, how much brown sugar or sugar should I add?
I seem to remember adding some sugar along with a can of pineapple juice and the yeast In my first batch?
If It was you.... And you wanted not too too sweet (but a little) and a decent amount of bite, like 8% to 10% (Unless that is too much and doesn't leave good flavor).
How much sugar would you add to the 6 gallon of apple with EC 1118
And
How much would you add to the pear/apple 3gal? (Again, 2gal of store bought organic Pear Nectar with no preservative and 1 gal of apple from the orchard)
DroolingNeoBrewery said:I never said it was impossible. I said it would take time (and quite possibly some trial and error to produce a nice sparkling dry cider. Yes it certainly has been done for many years. It has almost completely fallen out favour with the ability to carbonate with co2 cylinders, a pasteurized product that has been stopped before drying out completely. It takes a lot of ageing to get those lost flavours back or replaced, until then its really just yeasty, alcoholic soda water compared to what it will be in 1 - 2 years.
As for the bottle pasteurization I wouldn't try it, it get the impression that that the OP in the sticky is saying do at your own risk or this is just info I'm not recommending you try this. I am certainly not going to recommend something I wont do myself. He also gave the impression that he was looking for a quick drinkable perry like product, which is the recipe I suggested. For me sweet cider should either be stabilized and force carbed or keeved (which requires whole fruit, a press, favourable microflora present, some specialized chemicals, and a long slow, cold fermentation). Probably more then what the OP wants to get into.
Also using sugar to increase gravity in perry as with all fermented products in England is not taboo it is in fact part of the style. The English are cheap, sugar is cheap, I am cheap (and of English decent). Coincidence? I think not...
As for lactose it makes me sick I won't use it in anything and wont recommend it. Artificial sweeteners are poison. They have overdose symptoms for many of them outlined in medical textbooks. Do yourself a favour, step away from the splenda.
Bottle carbing is fine. As long as all it has to ferment is the priming sugar. With fruit you can never be 100% I have had fruit stuff keeping going in refrigerated bottles months after I though it was finished, good thing it was in plastic... Also the cider kits at your LHBS have artificial flavours and sugars in them that provide most of the flavour. The juice is just there to be turned into alcohol. That's what your LHBS was basing their advise on. Of course those kits are easily bottle carbed they are designed to be as simple as possible. Sourcing your own ingredients is a whole new level.
Sugar amounts should really be done by gravity/brix find the gravity of your juice and add sugar to adjust to your desired og. 1 lb of corn sugar will add about 44 pts per gallon or 7 points (1.8 brix) to 6 gallons. Also for a very simple guestimate 7 points = 1% assuming it finishes dry around 0.998 - 1.002.
Pineapple confuses me, its an anti microbial, it could hinder the yeast. Maybe it was meant to replace campden in the juice 24 hours before pitching? If your juice is pasteurized you don't need to worry about that. Don't use pineapple in your cider and campden can lend flavours that need to age out.
The only way you will make it sweeter by adding sugar when the yeast is active (or going to be) is to add so much that the yeast dyes off before being able to use it all. For ec 1118 I think that will be around 20% alcohol when it gave up. This would be an ice wine/cider or maybe even considered a liqueur. It would take many years to be drinkable. See above for my info about upping the gravity with sugar above with your first quoted post.
Thank you DNB! Just a heads up, I'm not using a cider kit.... And I wanted slightly sweet but was not planning on trying to add ALL the sugar during fermentation.... I was think later. Like backsweetining, adding juice.... (I have neve done either)
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