How to use oxygen to aerate wort?

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lakedawgs

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I have been reading through the old posts regarding aerating wort with oxygen.
I have seen posts from " a light stream of bubbles for the last couple of minutes of chilling" to 5 or 10 liters per minute with no time frame given.

I have a couple of medical oxygen tanks since my mother passed in December and was wondering how to put them to use. I can get a 2 micron stone but would like to know how to most efficiently use it.
Thank you
 
How I've oxygenated brews before is to cool them, transfer to the primary, then drop in a sanitized stone (don't touch it - the oils from your skin will clog the small holes in the stone) and line, then slowly turn on the O2 until the wort foams out of the top. Cover it to let the foam subside and repeat as necessary. I usually try for oxygenation time to be around 60-90 seconds.
 
Thanks to both, good info.
I have read that you oxygenate before you pitch yeast, do you guys do that?
Any reason to use oxygen after pitching or initial fermentation?
THANKS
 
Thanks to both, good info.
I have read that you oxygenate before you pitch yeast, do you guys do that?
Yes, yeast want oxygen during fermentation.


Any reason to use oxygen after pitching or initial fermentation?
No, you'll risk oxidizing your beer so it will taste like cardboard and there is no reason to do it anyway.

If you have the oxygen tank I might suggest you look at getting one of these. http://www.williamsbrewing.com/22-AERATION-WAND-P490.aspx Love mine.
 
I oxygenate the wort prior to pitching. You boil all the oxygen out during the boil, just need to replace it for initial yeast growth. No need for oxygen after the growth phase.
 
You want to use oxygen before pitching for the yeast to help it reproduce quickly. At any other stage of fermentation, oxygen is your enemy. I know it sounds kinda back-ass-wards, but that's the way it is. As Revvy likes to say "Oxygenated beer = liquid cardboard". He is right. Palmer explains it best here:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-9-3.html

He does a much better job then most people could.
 
honestly, i've been in water treatment for many years and the best way to aerate is forced air or the WAY easier method: stirring.
 
No, not with what we have available to us as home brewers. Just do a google search and ask how long to shake a carboy, or use a aquarium pump to aerate wort. You will find different times for all. If I remember correctly, I believe I heard/read that shaking the carboy and aquarium pump both take about 15 minutes. The oxygen tank with a regulator takes about 3 minutes...
 
honestly, i've been in water treatment for many years and the best way to aerate is forced air or the WAY easier method: stirring.

That may be the cheapest, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's the best.
 
we use a strainer as we poor from pot to bucket and then just splash away while topping off. wonder if i should be stirring a little also?
 
bja said:
That may be the cheapest, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's the best.

Let me clarify: with time and a bit more effort, it works just as good, and it's way cheaper, which makes it IMHO, the best. But to each, his own.
 
Let me clarify: with time and a bit more effort, it works just as good, and it's way cheaper, which makes it IMHO, the best. But to each, his own.

I guess everyone's definition of "best" is different. Personally, I try to introduce as little unfiltered air by stirring or agitation as necessary since it's, unfiltered.
 
I run .25 lpm for 1-2 minutes. It barely creates foam on the top which means it's working.

Bobby, do you use one of the williams regulators? Are there numbers on the dial or something to know what LPM you are running it at?

if not, do any of you williams regulator users have a specific place you set the dial to know what rate you are pumping o2 in?
 
I've not ever paid attention to my dial setting, I just know you should aim for a slow steady stream of small O2 bubbles. You want to avoid blasting it.
 
if not, do any of you williams regulator users have a specific place you set the dial to know what rate you are pumping o2 in?

It's simple. Watch the bubbles. If most of them are reaching the top, you're using too much.
 
You guys sound like you're in this pretty deep, but I'm going to go ahead and cite Palmer when he states that using pure oxygen vs stirring/pouring back and forth, while the differences are nearly impossible to discern immediately, the pure oxygen brews routinely score lower than the stirred-in air approach.

I don't think "unfiltered" air should be of any great concern unless you're brewing in a lumber yard or a factory or something.

That being said, I realize it can be fun to make things a little more complicated...
 
You guys sound like you're in this pretty deep, but I'm going to go ahead and cite Palmer when he states that using pure oxygen vs stirring/pouring back and forth, while the differences are nearly impossible to discern immediately, the pure oxygen brews routinely score lower than the stirred-in air approach.

I don't think "unfiltered" air should be of any great concern unless you're brewing in a lumber yard or a factory or something.

That being said, I realize it can be fun to make things a little more complicated...

If you don't mind, could you link to where Palmer said that the pure oxygen brews score lower than the stirred ones? I couldn't find it in How To Brew. I either overlooked it or perhaps it was somewhere else? Thanks.
 
You guys sound like you're in this pretty deep, but I'm going to go ahead and cite Palmer when he states that using pure oxygen vs stirring/pouring back and forth, while the differences are nearly impossible to discern immediately, the pure oxygen brews routinely score lower than the stirred-in air approach.

I don't think "unfiltered" air should be of any great concern unless you're brewing in a lumber yard or a factory or something.

That being said, I realize it can be fun to make things a little more complicated...

There's nothing complicated about aerating with O2 at all. In fact, I think it's much easier than pouring back and forth or shaking a heavy carboy/bucket.
 
I was talking to a master brewer in Albuquerque, NM about aeration of wort, and I mentioned that I used an aquarium pump and a sintered stone. He told me that I should consider purchasing an oxygen tank to aerate the wort, because it is relatively inexpensive and does a better job of increasing the partial pressure of oxygen in the wort. If there was an effect on taste, I am pretty sure that he would have learned this through the American Brewer's Guild, where he earned his degree.
 
Hmm... before I found this thread, I was advised that an easy way to aerate your wort was with a paint mixer attachment on a drill. So I bought one at Home Depot and gave it a good wash - is it safe to use this in my wort, even though it was intended (but never yet used for) mixing paint? Will 2-3 minutes of vigorous mixing with this thing on my drill sufficiently aerate my wort?
 
Bobby, do you use one of the williams regulators? Are there numbers on the dial or something to know what LPM you are running it at?

if not, do any of you williams regulator users have a specific place you set the dial to know what rate you are pumping o2 in?

I think it's a stretch to call that thing a regulator since it does not regulate at all as far as i can tell. for the price of that kit you are half way to a O2 cylinder that would last for hundreds of batches if not more, a real regulator would be around $40 at harbor freight.
 
I think that the question of how, and how much, to aerate is dependent on too many variables to specify a "best" method or time.

As previously stated, oxygen is only needed in the growth stage of yeast. The only reason to oxygenate wort is when yeast is pitched at a lower cell count than necessary for the quantity of wort being fermented. In theory, if the yeast has been previously oxygenated in the process of making a starter, and has been built up to a sufficient cell count, there should be no need to aerate the wort at all. Fermentation takes place anaerobically. Dry yeasts, in particular, have been through the whole growth stage and, as long as the viable cell count is high enough, they should be good to go without any further oxygen.

I had personally been plagued with sluggish and, at times, high FG fermentations back when I was using pure oxygen for aeration. Once, I even had a beer judge comment that my beer was oxidized, and it was only 6 weeks old! I then switched to a an aquarium pump, and noticed an immediate improvement in fermentation times and FG's. I believe, under the right conditions, that aeration of wort is not necessary and can, in fact, be detrimental.

I will be brewing in the next week or two, and I am going to put my theory to further test. I will pitch two packs of US-05 in a 5 gal. batch. The only aeration it will receive is whatever splashing occurs as it is transferred into the fermenter and moved.
 
I think it's a stretch to call that thing a regulator since it does not regulate at all as far as i can tell. for the price of that kit you are half way to a O2 cylinder that would last for hundreds of batches if not more, a real regulator would be around $40 at harbor freight.

I'm going to chime in here without any scientific evidence. I used the 1/8 oz of pure O2 when I first started brewing. That HD 6$ purchase every 3rd brew became a pain in the rear. An aquarium pump with sufficient flow and a stone @ 10/15 minutes seems to foam up just fine. The final outcome is strong yeast production in the early stages and then complete fermentation.

So try what you can afford to do. Just don't skimp on sanitation at such a critical stage. BB
 
I had personally been plagued with sluggish and, at times, high FG fermentations back when I was using pure oxygen for aeration. Once, I even had a beer judge comment that my beer was oxidized, and it was only 6 weeks old!

I used the 1/8 oz of pure O2 when I first started brewing. That HD 6$ purchase every 3rd brew became a pain in the rear.

I hope you guys realize that you were using about 100 times more O2 than was needed. Three brews from one O2 canister? Really?

I brew 10 gallons every 2-3 weeks and have been using the same canister for about 2-1/2 years.
 
I hope you guys realize that you were using about 100 times more O2 than was needed. Three brews from one O2 canister? Really?

I brew 10 gallons every 2-3 weeks and have been using the same canister for about 2-1/2 years.

I can guarantee that I was using NOWHERE NEAR that amount. Your ASSumption is incorrect.
 
I can guarantee that I was using NOWHERE NEAR that amount. Your ASSumption is incorrect.

Once, I even had a beer judge comment that my beer was oxidized, and it was only 6 weeks old! I then switched to a an aquarium pump, and noticed an immediate improvement in fermentation times and FG's.

Sounds to me like you were using way, way too much.
 
Sounds to me like you were using way, way too much.

And that was the entire premise of my post. Three brews per canister is obviously WAY "too much", but "too much" can also be the 30-40 seconds of pure O2 that I was using. My experience with O2 led me to conclude that O2 was not necessary, and could be detrimental. It may be useful, or even necessary, in a commercial brewery, but they have the equipment to test oxygen levels, etc. I think O2 is total overkill at the homebrew level.

If you underpitch yeast you will definitely need to aerate the wort to bring the cell count up, but you don't know how much is too much. Build up your cell counts with a healthy starter before you pitch, and you should be be OK without having to worry about "how much is too much". And you definitely won't need pure O2.
 
And that was the entire premise of my post. Three brews per canister is obviously WAY "too much", but "too much" can also be the 30-40 seconds of pure O2 that I was using. My experience with O2 led me to conclude that O2 was not necessary, and could be detrimental. It may be useful, or even necessary, in a commercial brewery, but they have the equipment to test oxygen levels, etc. I think O2 is total overkill at the homebrew level.

If you underpitch yeast you will definitely need to aerate the wort to bring the cell count up, but you don't know how much is too much. Build up your cell counts with a healthy starter before you pitch, and you should be be OK without having to worry about "how much is too much". And you definitely won't need pure O2.

not true.
 
not true.

OOOOOOOKAY..........................................that's all ya got? No explanation? Do you really intend to suggest that pure O2 from a tank is necessary for aeration? Air isn't good enough?

OK. Check out what brewing expert, Eric Watson, has to say:

http://www.beertools.com/html/articles.php?view=245

Here's Eric's surprising advice on aerating wort:

"If possible, don't! The reason is that it is not the wort that needs the oxygen, it is the yeast. By oxygenating the wort instead of the yeast starter, it will cause an over production of cells due to the excessive oxygen presence. This then leads to the production of unwanted esters and higher alcohols that will compromise beer flavor.

When oxygenating starters, you cannot use pure O2... the reason is that the uptake occurs too fast and without a dissolved O2 meter ($$$), you cannot tell when to stop. The way to properly do this one is to aerate using a high pressure aquarium pump, sterile air filter and a stainless steel aeration stone, all of which are readily available. It is virtually impossible to over-aerate using air, so you will avoid oxygen toxicity problems that will occur if trying to do this with pure oxygen."

When using dried yeast, he recommends no aeration at all. The yeast was properly aerated before drying and has been properly prepared for the fermentation immediately. Just rehydrate the yeast (he recommends 90deg water) for 30 minutes and dump into the non-aerated wort.

Please note that I am not advocating no aeration at all. I'm advocating against the use of pure O2.
 
OOOOOOOKAY..........................................that's all ya got? No explanation? Do you really intend to suggest that pure O2 from a tank is necessary for aeration? Air isn't good enough?

OK. Check out what brewing expert, Eric Watson, has to say:

http://www.beertools.com/html/articles.php?view=245

Here's Eric's surprising advice on aerating wort:

"If possible, don't! The reason is that it is not the wort that needs the oxygen, it is the yeast. By oxygenating the wort instead of the yeast starter, it will cause an over production of cells due to the excessive oxygen presence. This then leads to the production of unwanted esters and higher alcohols that will compromise beer flavor.

When oxygenating starters, you cannot use pure O2... the reason is that the uptake occurs too fast and without a dissolved O2 meter ($$$), you cannot tell when to stop. The way to properly do this one is to aerate using a high pressure aquarium pump, sterile air filter and a stainless steel aeration stone, all of which are readily available. It is virtually impossible to over-aerate using air, so you will avoid oxygen toxicity problems that will occur if trying to do this with pure oxygen."

When using dried yeast, he recommends no aeration at all. The yeast was properly aerated before drying and has been properly prepared for the fermentation immediately. Just rehydrate the yeast (he recommends 90deg water) for 30 minutes and dump into the non-aerated wort.

Please note that I am not advocating no aeration at all. I'm advocating against the use of pure O2.

yeah, that guy also says that we shouldn't first wort hop because it's detrimental to head retention.

i also learned that dextrins are not related to mouthfeel. interesting to say the least.

if it were true that pure O2 was detrimental lots of us here would have probably noticed by now, not to mention all of the commercial craft brewers who use pure O2. in my case i won 2nd place at the world beer cup with an american pale ale that got at least a minute of pure O2. if you are saying that my beer will be better using just air and not pure O2 i'll have to back to doing it that way. i remember my beer getting better after going to pure O2 but i'll try it out anyway.
 
>.My experience with O2 led me to conclude that O2 was not necessary, and could be detrimental.

>>Please note that I am not advocating no aeration at all. I'm advocating against the use of pure O2.


Not according to the Yeast book, by Chris White.
But what does he know about yeast? ;)
 
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