Wyeast 3711 French Saison

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ChshreCat said:
I'd be curious if anyone who used 3724 might try the same or a similar recipe with 3711 to how they compare flavor wise.
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Last week I split a 10 gallon Saison batch with 5g 3711 & 5g 3724.

I used 1 pint of yeast cake (trub and yeast) for the 3711 and it went from 1.065 to 1.008 in 3 days, fermenting at 74F. I used a 2qt starter for 3724, and it went from 1.052 to 1.028 in 3 days fermenting at 80F.
I put the 3711 gravity sample in the fridge for a day, and today gave SWMBO a taste. She said it is one of her fave beers (despite flatness), then I told her it was 4 days old. She didn't believe me. I am very happy with the flavor so far, as it doesn't taste green at all.

I saw someone else said this yeast might go into the regular rotation for Wyeast, and that would make me happy, even though I already have some yeast bank samples of it.
 
this yeast is amazing! I brewed my Saison with an OG of 1.068 and it fermented out to 1.004 in 3 days! 81F (I did not make a starter) ...thats an ABV of 8.5% It tasted smooth and delicious (hydro sample) Im thinking if it tased that good warm and flat that it is going to be amazing when carbed up and ice cold!

I totally plan on using the yeast over and over...

So can I wash this yeast by throwing say a half gallon of store bought distilled water (sanatize the lid) in the trub? Or should I always boil the water first?
 
BobcatBrew said:
So can I wash this yeast by throwing say a half gallon of store bought distilled water (sanatize the lid) in the trub? Or should I always boil the water first?
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There's evidence out that distilled water is bad for yeast. Not having any minerals or anything in the water causes the yeast cells to be damaged by osmotic pressure.

I was lazy and just used regular bottled drinking water when I washed my yeast, but I wasn't planning on storing it for very long. Part of the reason for boiling is to drive off oxygen so the yeast will more likely go (or stay) dormant when you wash them.
 
that makes sense....I might as well just do it the right way to start so I can have a good healthy supply of this stuff
 
ChshreCat said:
There's evidence out that distilled water is bad for yeast. Not having any minerals or anything in the water causes the yeast cells to be damaged by osmotic pressure.
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I've been trying to find sources that confirm this. There are plenty of sources that say that using distilled water to wash yeast is common practice. I ran across this discussion in HBD that claims distilled water does not cause osmotic pressure:

Still the point is this. Distilled water is the reference and has 0
pressure on the scale (distilled is the 0 pt reference). Burton water has
about 20-25 millimoles of ions and so applies an osmotic pressure around
9psi. The internal pressure from dissimilar ions forms a much greater
internal pressure than this minor external force. The water ions from
minerals or lack thereof probably are insignificant against the 350+mMol of
non-permeable sugars and dextrins in wort or the 900mMol of ethanol in beer.
[[Note every Mol of maltose fermented produces 4 moles of ethanol - and a
huge attendant increase in OS-pressure]].

> Specifically, if someone was to use RO/distilled water to
> wash their yeast, would this significantly affect yeast viability?

As compared to Burton water ? No. It's like 9psi difference in cells that
will handle 300+ psi and probably 400psi in finished beer. The change is
that the external non-permeables in beer will go from pushing the cell
membrane inward with the mechanical differential of say 350psi minus the
cell internal 30psi. in distilled water the pressure is just the 30psi of
the internal cell solute pushing outward.

>Could it cause the yeast to actually autolyse?

Yes, but not due to pressure. Exposing yeast to oxygen during washing
causes them to burn off glycogen stores and some trehalose to make sterols
from squalene. This reduces the storage life of stored yeast after exposure
to oxygen. Also after water washing (and maybe storage) you *may* get
shock excretion. As you pitch the cells into fresh wort w/ higher
os-pressure they upchuck amino and keto acids and it's a while before they
feel better. Some die no doubt.
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I'd be interested to see some sources that claim otherwise, though.
 
EvilGnome6 said:
I've been trying to find sources that confirm this. There are plenty of sources that say that using distilled water to wash yeast is common practice. I ran across this discussion in HBD that claims distilled water does not cause osmotic pressure:



I'd be interested to see some sources that claim otherwise, though.
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Here's an interesting article. It talks about the yeast cells having defenses against hypo-osmotic shock, so many of them survive, but I don't know if I'd want to put them through it. Seems to me that even if they survive, it would stress them and that's always a bad thing. Interesting debate that might deserve it's own thread if anyone wanted to start one, since we don't want to hijack this one. :)

Osmotic Stress Signaling and Osmoadaptation in Yeasts
 
OK...now that I washed some of this yeast last night. What recipe should I try? Something else besides a saison? Maybe just a belgian blonde?
 
Since it's specialized for saison, I'd probably just do another saison if it were me, but with a different grain bill and different hops. But home brewing is all about marching to the beat of your own kazoo, so go crazy and do whatever you want. See what happens if you make a porter with saison yeast! :D
 
Tone: that is a great idea!

CC: thats a good point you make. I really just like how fast and effecient it is. Very smooth and can be fermented at warm temps...I love it
 
Hey all,

Just tapped the keg of 3711!! Very nice!!! Great floral notes with hints of malt. For such a great fermenter this yeast delivers fast and filly attenuated Saison with little need for long conditioning.

I think the 5 gallons that is slated for brett and bottling will happen next week.

Nothing better than leaving a beer to carb for a few days and then be pleasantly surprised 3 days later with a great beer!!!

If this is what 3711 tastes like young, the longer conditioned brews should be out of this world!!!
 
B-Dub said:
Hey all,

Just tapped the keg of 3711!! Very nice!!! Great floral notes with hints of malt. For such a great fermenter this yeast delivers fast and filly attenuated Saison with little need for long conditioning.

I think the 5 gallons that is slated for brett and bottling will happen next week.

Nothing better than leaving a beer to carb for a few days and then be pleasantly surprised 3 days later with a great beer!!!

If this is what 3711 tastes like young, the longer conditioned brews should be out of this world!!!
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Whats you abv???? Mine was 8.5% It needs to age.... tastes kinda hot.
 
ABV is 6.8%. About 1.057 to 1.006. Really very good for being so young. I think I might have just one more........:D
 
I'm working on my 3711 recipe right now. I'm planning on washing yeast and keeping this around for a variety of brews. Here is my recipe building thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/extra-special-rye-french-saison-huh-yes-132948/

Excited about this brew! Just working on the hopping schedule now. What temps can I get away with on this one? My other saison was above 80 but I'd like to do this in the mid 70s.

I know this was mentioned before, but Upright Brewing here in PDX is using this as their house yeast and all of their brews have been amazing. They have done a few saisons, some with a lot of dry hopping cascades, also they have done a gruit and a dark rye beer and a saison with no bittering hops, just aroma, as well as calendula and some other type of flower (it is called Flora Rustica).
 
I believe with 3711 that you want it below 78F. Ramping it up is good if you can do so, 68 to 78F. Have champagne yeast ready if it won't get down to 1.008 or less. For reaching dryness, adding 1-2 lbs of cane sugar is good as long as it doesn't exceed 15% of the fermentables.

Good Luck! This will make you a good special occasion beer. Don't drink it all in one month where you can't appreciate the aging of this beer. Its meant to be a saver! You'll thank me for this!!!

:mug:

My recipe is posted earlier. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/wyeast-3711-french-saison-131414/index4.html#post1491703
 
Picobrew said:
I know this was mentioned before, but Upright Brewing here in PDX is using this as their house yeast and all of their brews have been amazing. They have done a few saisons, some with a lot of dry hopping cascades, also they have done a gruit and a dark rye beer and a saison with no bittering hops, just aroma, as well as calendula and some other type of flower (it is called Flora Rustica).
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Which Uprights do you like best? I've had #4 & #5 on tap at the Green Dragon, and I wouldn't call either exceptional. The #5 tasted like a good beer, but was still too young to me. I wouldn't have served it at home.
 
Tonedef131 said:
What have you observed when it gets above 78F?
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nuclear-explosion.jpg

Just kidding. :D
 
Well I tore into the Saison yesterday. Only about 3 weeks old and very good!! I underestimated the 6.8% ABV and combined it with some Alt, Strong Golden, Triple and Barley Wine. This morning was a little rough :drunk:

I emailed wyeast and they are hoping to make the 3711 a year round strain. They also stated it was a single culture.
 
B-Dub said:
Well I tore into the Saison yesterday. Only about 3 weeks old and very good!! I underestimated the 6.8% ABV and combined it with some Alt, Strong Golden, Triple and Barley Wine. This morning was a little rough :drunk:

I emailed wyeast and they are hoping to make the 3711 a year round strain. They also stated it was a single culture.
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Buy yourself another smack pack. Make a 1 gal starter. Let it ferment out completely. Then bottle a six-pack with all the trub, swirl well before bottling.

Keep em in the fridge. - You'll be AOK until its a regular stock item or next summer.

Worst case use the last one for another 1 gal starter!

:mug:
 
I'll be ordering this strain over the weekend. You guys make me wish I could brew a Saison tomorrow!
 
Just finished brewing my esb saison. Went really well except we forgot the sugar. Hit the proper gravity without the sugar, so the brewing faeries must be on my side today. Going to be a bit extra malty and not as dry, but it is a funky esb saison so maybe that is good! Just pitched the yeast and can't wait to taste this one.
 
Chef Stress said:
Brewed with 3711 about 2 weeks ago (8/1). We made a Liter starter out of one smack pack and split that between two carboys for our 10 gallon batch. With in 12 hours they were both bubblin like mad. One of the fermenters had a thick krausen, the other no krausen at all, we were worried, but they both smelled great. They've just quit bubbling, we're not taking samples, but I'd say based on fermentation time that we got a good attenuation. OG was 1.055.

My question about 3711 is about temp., we brewed in the mountains, and left it outside to ferment (in coolers), so I know temp didn't go over 77F then, but a week ago I drove them back to my apt in NY, where's it's been over 90F for a few days, these things def. went into the 80s.

Anyone else ferment the 3711 hot?

Thanks,

Stressy
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As a fellow Brooklyn brewer I can feel your pain about the temperature we had this week. I do have a Northern Brewer Saison kit going using this strain. I have tried to control the temperature within the recommended range of 77 being the high end of it. With the temps we had in Brooklyn I have seen it go upto low 80's. I did an experiment with Hefeweizen that I bottled today and I let it ferment at room temperature and went up as high as 86F over the course of last 2 weeks. I am using harvested yeast for the Hefe and will harvest Saison yeast when I am done so its all about experimenting for me.
 
We transferred from primary to secondary on Sunday, and took our first sample, the gravity was 1.001 (OG was 1.055), I didn't even think that was really possible, this yeast is incredible.

As for the high fermenting temp, the samples we tried from our two carboys were both good, we didn't notice any off flavors, and they smelled great, so I'm hopeful that our finished product will be delicious.

If you haven't already, I would definitely recommend ordering this strain while you can.
 
Chef Stress said:
We transferred from primary to secondary on Sunday, and took our first sample, the gravity was 1.001 (OG was 1.055), I didn't even think that was really possible, this yeast is incredible.
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I like dryness in saison. 1001 with no off flavor is impressive. what did your temp look like?
 
We were well under 77 for the first week of fermentation (when I imagine the majority of the fermentation occured), but for the last two weeks in primary it was in my apt where outside heat was peaking in high 90s. My Fermometer is broken, so I can't say what the actual temp of carboys was. I do keep my carboys in coolers in my apt.
 
Pivzavod said:
As a fellow Brooklyn brewer I can feel your pain about the temperature we had this week. I do have a Northern Brewer Saison kit going using this strain. I have tried to control the temperature within the recommended range of 77 being the high end of it. With the temps we had in Brooklyn I have seen it go upto low 80's. I did an experiment with Hefeweizen that I bottled today and I let it ferment at room temperature and went up as high as 86F over the course of last 2 weeks. I am using harvested yeast for the Hefe and will harvest Saison yeast when I am done so its all about experimenting for me.
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Funny, I am from Brooklyn and I have the same French Petite Saison (Northern Brewer kit) in my primary right now, brewed it on Sunday. My first brew ever. We should exchange bottles :)

Its living in my air condition living room, but my living room doesn't have a door..the AC is on at 74F but the Fermenter says its 78 on the brew. I know that Saoison like warm temps, so I am not that worried about it. Its bubbling every 4 seconds, I had a nice thick foamy Krausen on Monday and toward the evening it turned into big bubbles and the foam is gone.

Here is a pic of my "krausen" just in case.

2aadf5w.jpg


lol sorry for the large ass pic...mah bad.
 
MasterShake said:
Funny, I am from Brooklyn and I have the same French Petite Saison (Northern Brewer kit) in my primary right now, brewed it on Sunday. My first brew ever. We should exchange bottles :)

Its living in my air condition living room, but my living room doesn't have a door..the AC is on at 74F but the Fermenter says its 78 on the brew. I know that Saoison like warm temps, so I am not that worried about it. Its bubbling every 4 seconds, I had a nice thick foamy Krausen on Monday and toward the evening it turned into big bubbles and the foam is gone.

Here is a pic of my "krausen" just in case.

2aadf5w.jpg


lol sorry for the large ass pic...mah bad.
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Brooklyn in da hizzy!!!!! At the hot temp we had in Brooklyn for last few weeks my fermentation went quick. Within 12 hours it was going ape ****, finished in under a week. I now have it at 2.5 weeks but I think I'll bottle 06/05 Baltic this weekend first before I have enough for bottles left for Saison. I just bottled a Dunkelweizen on Sunday and cant wait to switch to kegging which will be done within a month :mad: I am planning on getting 5 kegs to start, 2 on tap, 1 cold conditioning + 2 extra for other activities / backup.
 
Just ordered this one today. Should be brewing next weekend.

Hopefully, it'll be a nice, refreshing session beer just in time to bid adieu to summer.
 
Pivzavod said:
Brooklyn in da hizzy!!!!! At the hot temp we had in Brooklyn for last few weeks my fermentation went quick. Within 12 hours it was going ape ****, finished in under a week. I now have it at 2.5 weeks but I think I'll bottle 06/05 Baltic this weekend first before I have enough for bottles left for Saison. I just bottled a Dunkelweizen on Sunday and cant wait to switch to kegging which will be done within a month :mad: I am planning on getting 5 kegs to start, 2 on tap, 1 cold conditioning + 2 extra for other activities / backup.
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Hey I tried to PM you back but your Message Box is full..clear it out :))

I am not even going to bother bottling, i am going straight to kegging. Next week i'll be buying a freezer to convert to a keezer.

Also I spoke with the owner of Bierkraft (park slope) and he said he'll be willing to get me sixtels of micro-brew from around here for my keezer (next to my homebrew), maybe if you need some he can give some sort of discount :drunk:

ps: i like your name..im ukranian
 
Cleared my inbox! I am renaming this batch to Brooklyn Saison!!! I spoke to Stress already and we plan to do an exchange.

How about a meetup @ Bierkraft?
 
Just finished brewing up a Northern Brewer Petite Saison d'Ete recipe and pitched a 1L starter of 3711 that I had on a stir plate overnight. I pitched the yeast at 60F and will let it rise to 77F. 2 hours later I'm already seeing the bubbles in the airlock. :D
 
kscomp0 said:
Can someone give me an idea of the spice profile with this yeast?
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From Northern Brewer; Wyeast 3711 French Saison Private Collection July-Sept 2009 - Yeast - Ingredients

Produces Saison or farmhouse-style beers that are highly aromatic with clean citrus esters. Expect peppery and spicy notes with no earthiness and low phenols. This strain enhances the use of spices and is extremely attenuative but leaves an unexpected silky and rich mouthfeel in a very dry finished beer. Apparent attenuation: 77-83%. Flocculation: low. Optimum temp: 65°-77° F
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Looks like most people here saw this yeast as an alternative to the regular Saison strains, but when I saw French Saison I immediately thought to brew a Biere de Garde in the fall! I've never brewed this style but really like some of the commercial ones I've had (La Choulette, Two Brothers). Phil Markowski's Farmhouse Ale's recommends a neutral yeast like an Alt or Kolsch strain, but I feel like those yeasts wouldn't give me that farmhouse character. He also lists Brasserie Thiriez, where this strain comes from, as a Biere de Garde brewer while noting that their flagship blonde product more closely resembles Saison.

Anyway, for those of you that have used it, how do you think it will brew a Biere de Garde? I brewed it up two days ago with this recipe:

2 lbs Pilsner DME
3 lbs Pilsner malt
3 lbs Belgian Munich
2 lbs 6-row (to mimic the French use of winter six-row)
.5 lbs Caravienne
.5 lbs Carawheat
1 oz Black Patent
.5 lbs Cane Sugar
1.5 oz Strisselspalt @ 60
.5 oz Strisselspalt @ 30
Wyeast 3711 French Saison

I'm fermenting at around 68 degrees, which might mute the ester production a bit, hopefully while still leaving a distinctly Farmhouse flavor. Thoughts?
 

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