American Wheat Beer Rye Pale Ale

JohnSand said:

When I experiment with flavorings, I test a little at a time. You can always add the whiskey to your glass (boilermaker?). But if you add it to the batch and it's not good...
You might also try adding a little to some of the bottles if you bottle. But beware that too much alcohol will kill the yeast and keep it from carbing.

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Good response, thank you!

daggers_nz said:

oh dear.. did you follow the OP recipe exactly? This is what I'm running with when I do it:

57.3% MO
15.8% Munich Dark 15.5L
15.8% Malted Rye
5.5% Caraplis/Dextrine
5.5% Abbey Malt

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Eh, I wouldn't put too much stock in me getting a bit of off flavors... It seems to be an off and on issue for me, and I can't quite trouble shoot it correctly. In any case, I made this with:
6.5 # marris otter
1.5 # rye malt
1.5 # Munich
1# honey malt
.5 # catapults
.5# rice hulls

.4 ounce centennial 9.4% fwh
.9 ounce centennial boil 90
.4 ounce centennial boil 5

.3 ounce centennial dry hops 3 Days.

Og: 1.060
FG: 1.014

I still need to wait a bit and see how the flavors meld. Only bottled 9 days ago, and brewed 2 weeks before that.

Regarding adding whisky, I'd second John's comments... Actual whiskey might be funky with a hop forward beer. But, cheers to trying anything, eh?

Mine has been in the fermenter three weeks. I'm waiting for a new 2.5 keg before packaging. Then I'll split between bottles and the new keg. Then I'll make more beer. I followed the original recipe pretty closely I think. I'll know how it worked in no less than a week. The bottles will of course take longer. The keg may also take some conditioning.

Ack... Amazing how googling the problem can take you to the solution.
It looks like I've been overcrushing my grain. I read somewhere that since rye was smaller grain, it helped to run it through the mill twice, so I just threw my grain bill through the mill twice, figuring I'd get better efficiency. And, I'm certain I've done this with the two other brews that were too astringent. Ack! Looks like I won't be able to comment too much on the flavor of this one. But, what I can taste is pretty decent in there. Looks like I need to brew again sometime soon as I'll need something good to drink while I get through this one.

slohiker said:

It looks like I've been overcrushing my grain. I read somewhere that since rye was smaller grain, it helped to run it through the mill twice, so I just threw my grain bill through the mill twice, figuring I'd get better efficiency. And, I'm certain I've done this with the two other brews that were too astringent.

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I've never heard of this problem. I myself have to deal with any "amber" beer I brew tasting a little skunky/earthy and I can never figure out why. It could be the mill I use (LHBS) but it's the same mill for all pale and dark ales I don't have problems with those

Give it some time Hiker. Are you sure it's astringent? How fast are you cooling? Slower cooling can lead to more bitterness. Do you control fermentation temps?

JohnSand said:

Give it some time Hiker. Are you sure it's astringent? How fast are you cooling? Slower cooling can lead to more bitterness. Do you control fermentation temps?

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Sorry for the late reply... I'm pretty fed up with my own mistakes here in brewing... I used to brew in a bag, with solid results consistently. Then, made the leap to a large mashtun, and didn't reread any information about mashing. It might have been the crush of the grain, but I think I've also been adding too hot of sparge water while batch sparging. The Rye Pale Ale is my 3rd time doing this, and I've had the taste enough that I know it immediately when the beer is carbonated. Even worse, I thought the problem was just the crush, so last weekend I did a mini batch of a rye IPA, and might have made the same mistake (among others).

Sorry, these replies have derailed the thread... John, post your notes when you get a chance! I'll have to decide whether to do this one up again!

No hurry Hiker. I found that a change in my system requires adjusting my process too. I bottled/kegged my batch today. It only went down to 1.016, even after warming. That may be from a shortened mash. I'll know in a week or so how good it is.

My latest take on this beer style:

Pilsner 70%
Malted Rye 20%
Flaked Rye 5%
Crystal 130 4%
Special B 1%

All Amarillo hops, mostly late additions.

OG 1.065
Pitched most with a clean American yeast the rest with a Saison yeast.
Fed the Saison version more sugar after a few days to bump to about a 1.080 corrected OG.
Both finished at 1.014 SG
Color on both was about 14 SRM
Bitterness approx 62 IBU
Rye Ale ~6.5% ABV
Siason ~8.5% ABV

Can use some minor tweaks, but overall I think this is a solid Rye recipe.

I just finished the 2.5 gallon keg. It was quite a good beer, not over sweetened by the honey malt, plenty hoppy. In mine the rye was very subtle. It may be that the flaked rye wasn't fresh. In any case, every one that tried it liked it.

I liked the look of this recipe, so I brewed it myself today.

It was my second all-grain batch, and I correctly guessed my mash efficiency at a lame 60%, so I needed to bump the grain bill a bit. I used 2-row instead of Marris Otter, because I'm not a big fan. And the hops I had on hand were Cascade and Warrior. Here's what I brewed:

8LB 2-row
2LB Rye Malt (LHBS didn't have flaked rye)
2LB Munich Malt
1LB Honey Malt
0.5LB Carapils

0.6oz Warrior (16.8% alpha) - boil 60 min
0.5oz Cascade (6.8% alpha) - boil 15 min
0.5oz Cascade (6.8% alpha) - boil 5 min

IBUs:39.7

Yeast: US-05

OG: 1.055

In the summer, my tap water really struggles to get the wort under 90F. So the fermenter's full and sitting in an ice water bath...I'll pitch later tonight once it's under 70.

It should finish between 5.5% and 6% ABV. I'll probably toss an ounce or 2 of cascade in dry hop once the airlock settles.

Keep us posted. I'm thinking of brewing soon, (a Belgian Pale) and expect difficulty chilling. I plan to finish with an ice bath too.

if you have temperature control, you could transfer to the fermenter and let the fridge/freezer drop it to pitching temp? Not ideal, but I'm sure the system inside the fermenter would be safe for a few hours before the rehydrated/starter yeast was pitched

I've basically been running my bedroom AC for 2 weeks continuously to keep this one under 70. It's less efficient than a fridge I guess, but it's nice to come home to a cool room

I added 1oz of Cascade to dry hop on Thursday, after krausen had dropped. Pulled my first sample today for a taste and gravity reading. Looks like it's terminated at 1.006...so I'm a full percentage point higher than I was aiming for on this one. I mashed a little too low I think (152).

It tastes pretty darn good. Just enough rye bite to know it's there, but not overpowering. The IBUs are just right too, but I think I need another ounce of something in the dry hop because I want to smell more. (I added 1oz of centennial and will keg Sunday or Monday).

Folks asked about temp control...it's kind of off topic for this thread. But I ended up leaving the batch in ice overnight before pitching. I'm fermenting in a plastic bucket which is not very good at heat exchange with its surroundings. Glass would be better, and stainless steel better still...

Next time I'm fermenting in plastic in the summer I think I will ice bath my brew kettle down below 70F before transfer to fermenter. I should be able to chill to pitching temp much more quickly that way.

Someday I'll get a counterflow wort chiller or something that will allow me to incorporate a bucket of ice water instead of tap water.

I ferment in plastic 100% of the time with no issues. But I'm lucky enough to have a temperature controlled freezer chamber

I'm resurrecting this thread because I read through this a while back while researching a decent rye pale ale recipe. I must say thank you boys!

I wanted it to be a bit darker...it's fall and the beginning of my darker beer seasons, but after lots and lots of reading here's what I ended up with, and it's delicious!

Sica Hollow (A Rye Pale Ale)
4lbs Golden Promise
4lbs Pale Ale
2lbs Organic Munich
2lbs Rye Malt
1lbs 80L

A friend of mine had brewed Denny's Wry Smile from Northern Brewer and I really liked the hoppiness of that beer, so I sort of followed that schedule and tweaked it a bit. Plus, another friend just gave me 2lbs of homegrown Mount Hood...perfect!

1oz Mount Hood @FWH
.5oz Columbus @60
1oz Mount Hood @30
1oz Columbus @FO
1oz Mount Hood @FO
2oz Columbus 5 day dry hop
1.5oz Mount Hood 5 day dry hop

WLP 007 Dry English Ale

OG 1.060
FG 1.014
6% ABV
44IBU

Thoughts on this variation? Any feedback would be great, including ideas to simplify/streamline hop schedule.

7LB 2-row
1.5LB Rye Malt
1LB Munich Malt
0.75LB Carapils
0.5LB Honey Malt

0.5oz Columbus (13.4% alpha) - boil 60 min
0.5oz Columbus (13.4% alpha) - boil 10 min
0.5oz El Dorado (11.4% alpha) - boil 10 min
0.5oz El Dorado (11.4% alpha) - flameout
1.0oz Amarillo (8.2% alpha) - flameout
1.0oz El Dorado (11.4% alpha) - dryhop 10 days
1.0oz Amarillo (8.2% alpha) - dryhop 10 days

Yeast: US-05 (small starter during brew session)
Primary: 11 days
Secondary: 10 days

Anticipated stats:
IBUs: 36
OG: 1.051
ABV: 5.7%
SRM: 5

Almost two years since the last post. Time to revive this thread and re-brew this beer.
I've used different hops each time, varied the amount and style of rye, never used Maris Otter, but produced great beers nonetheless. Lately I've been brewing IPAs, IIPAs Belgians and trying to refine an ESB. Time to come home to a good APA with this recipe.
Not today, not tomorrow, but soon.

So has 'soon' happened? Really wanting to brew a rye pale soon too. You said you used different hops each time? What was your favorite? You also mentioned you changed up amounts of rye. Was There an amount of rye you liked the most?

Yes it has, though my latest version has varied even further. The most recent was 6# pilsner, 2# munich, 1.5# rye malt, .5# honey malt, .5# crystal 20. I think I subbed C20 for some honey malt because I had it on hand crushed. This version used Cascade only, and Nottingham yeast fermented cool, around 60. That resulted in a cleaner beer that I enjoyed, others too. I plan to repeat this, perhaps for my next brew. The time before that I used Simcoe, Centennial and Cascade, 1#@ of flaked rye and rye malt. That was also a success. Good luck with yours, let us know what you do.

Awesome! Have you noticed a difference in flaked rye vs. Rye malt in how the beer turned out? Sorry, don't know much about rye.

Some prefer one or the other, some use both. I've done both together or rye malt only. I don't find enough difference to justify the stickiness of the flakes. Rye and wheat kernels are both smaller and harder than barley, so if you use rye malt, be sure it's crushed. Flakes don't require any crush.

Ok. Thanks for the advice! Looks like I'll just go with the malt

I think you'll like it. Keep me posted.

Alright Thanks! Will do

This sounds good, i actually have a different rye ipa planned for the next brew (Bissel Bros LUX clone) but if that goes well I might try this one. .5lb honey malt and .5lb C20 seems like a lot for a relatively small grain bill, does the beer finish sweet? Is that much needed to balance the character of the rye? Ive never made a rye beer before so i have no experience balancing its flavor.

It did not seem sweet. That batch used Notty fermented cool, which was very clean. My wife's brother in law and niece are both big craft beer fans and complimented it. I have another batch in the bucket right now, hopefully I'll taste it again in a couple of weeks