Achieving Maximum Maltiness

I've always wondered how to achieve that rich maltiness in English brews. Ive made numerous batches with Maris Otter and cant seem to clone my favorite English Stout like Samuel Smiths Oatmeal Stout or Pale ales like Fullers ESB/London Pride.

My most recent attempt was an Oatmeal stout recipe which ended up tasting nothing like Samuel Smiths Oatmeal stout. I did a side by side tasting and SSOS had an intense maltiness and very little roast flavor compared to my recipe.

Here is my Recipe


Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wlp002
Yeast Starter: Yes!
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.016
IBU: 35
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 29
ABV 4.6%


6.75 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Chocolate malt (pale) (200.0 SRM)
4.0 oz Roasted Barley
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)


The stout was in the primary for 4 weeks then transferred to the keg.


Samuel Smiths Oatmeal stout is 5% ABV with a final gravity of 1.014 which would mean the OG is 1.050 so I was close.

When tasting SSOS I get a very rich malty sweetness and a touch of oatmeal with hardly any roast flavor. When tasting mine a get the same mouthfeel but a very dry and nutty flavor with some coffee like notes but no extreme maltiness present.

The question is how on earth do I get this rich malt flavor in the original beer? My Brew has a higher OG but its not as sweet? perhaps I should back of the IBUs? I know for a fact I should remove the Victory and the Pale chocolate and replace it with more Maris Otter to increase the malty backbone but for some reason i dont feel that will be enough. Maybe it's because i'm not aging the beer long enough for the base malt to stick out? Maybe im using the wrong yeast? Wlp002 is a very low attenuater so i tend to mash very low like 148. Is there a difference if I used a high attenuating yeast and mashed real high like 156/158????


Any suggestions would be much appreciated


Happy Holidays!

I would say if you want more malt flavor you would need to mash higher. I normally shoot for 155 when i make my stouts. My goto yeast is us-05 and never have a problem with it.

I would mash higher like Chris said and also use a lower attenuating yeast. That should make a big difference in body and maltiness

Mashing higher will help. Also I've been using Aromatic malt in a lot of my British styles and also in things like Barleywine and Irish red and it provides a terrifically rich and malty quality. You also may want to experiment with Melanoidin malt but don't use more than 8 ounces or so.

CraigT said:

I would mash higher like Chris said and also use a lower attenuating yeast. That should make a big difference in body and maltiness

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I agree,
I've found the easiest way to retain maltyness in a beer is to purposely
under pitch it.
And use a lower attenuating yeast as Craig mentioned.

I would brew your next batch mashing in the 154-156F range. If you don't get what you want with that range, increase it by 2F for the next batch. Once you find the mash temp (and time) that gives you what you want, you should be set there. Also try using Wyeast 1318 London Ale III. I would ferment it in the low end of it's range, using a starter sized correctly as per yeastcalc.com. I wouldn't under/over pitch by more than 5-10% of the target there. Since you're going to have a good amount of growth no matter what you do (look at what yeastcalc shows for the "total cells at finish" to see what I mean).

I wouldn't mash higher than 155, but that might be a good place to start.

If that doesn't work for you, don't get frustrated. You could be doing everything right but may unknowingly have a water profile that prohibits you from producing malty beers.

Many people here, including me, don't sparge their mash (aka 'no-sparge').

I have found that in lower gravity beers, it has made for a richer maltiness. You have to account for a lower efficiency, though. Mine dropped by 10%-12% due to no-sparge, but that's only a few bucks more in base malt for - what I can taste as - a better malt flavour in my ales.

Thanks for the advice but wouldnt mashing higher increase my Final gravity higher than 16? Perhaps I should increase the crystal malts instead?

Golddiggie said:

I would brew your next batch mashing in the 154-156F range. If you don't get what you want with that range, increase it by 2F for the next batch. Once you find the mash temp (and time) that gives you what you want, you should be set there. Also try using Wyeast 1318 London Ale III. I would ferment it in the low end of it's range, using a starter sized correctly as per yeastcalc.com. I wouldn't under/over pitch by more than 5-10% of the target there. Since you're going to have a good amount of growth no matter what you do (look at what yeastcalc shows for the "total cells at finish" to see what I mean).

Click to expand...

Is there a difference in sweetness/body if I is use WLP002 @ 69% attentuation and mashing at 148 than London Ale 1318 @ 75% mashing at 154 both with the Final gravity of 1.014???? Or is this just 2 seperate ways of getting the same results?

klamz said:

Thanks for the advice but wouldnt mashing higher increase my Final gravity higher than 16? Perhaps I should increase the crystal malts instead?

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Higher mash = higher FG = more mouthfeel, sweetness, malt character in the glass.

You need to be careful with how much crystal malt you toss in, since that can give you other issues. IME, keeping at least 80% base malt is a good decision. Besides, you can get a SMaSH to be very malty simply with mash temperature selection, yeast selection, and IBU:GU choice.

klamz said:

Is there a difference in sweetness/body if I is use WLP002 @ 69% attentuation and mashing at 148 than London Ale 1318 @ 75% mashing at 154 both with the Final gravity of 1.014???? Or is this just 2 seperate ways of getting the same results?

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Yeast does more than just attenuate. Look at the information on both strains and what they will leave/offer the brew. Reach out to both yeast labs and see what they advise you do for yeast management in order to get your goal from the strains.

Personally, I select a yeast for what flavors it will deliver into the brew, more than what it's attenuation rating is. That being said, I won't use a <10% tolerance rated yeast in a 12% brew.

Water chemistry certainly could be a piece of the puzzle here. Might be worth getting a copy of your local water report and read the water primer sticky under brewing science here at homebrewtalk. Water chemistry made a huge difference in my ipa's and apa's.

Like Nugent mentioned, the richest flavors come from using the first runnings only.
This is the whole reason the English did/do parti-gyle brews.
Yes, your grain bill will go up. You can also easily gyle a second brew with the sparge.

Parti-gyle just sounds brilliant, you go and get a porter and a mild in one go Party!

bottlebomber said:

Mashing higher will help. Also I've been using Aromatic malt in a lot of my British styles and also in things like Barleywine and Irish red and it provides a terrifically rich and malty quality. You also may want to experiment with Melanoidin malt but don't use more than 8 ounces or so.

Click to expand...

+1 to aromatic malt. Yum!