Belgian Golden Strong Ale Duvel Clone

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Dgonza9,

I do 5 gallon batches and my element is 4500w run on 120v (maybe 1125w). It has been no problem for me to set the temp to 170 and let it run itself up. I usually start at 120 and it takes about 1:15 to get up there. No scorching evident on the element post mash either...

I know it doesn't answer your question per se, just food for thought.
 
Have not done my Duvel clone yet, but it will be my next brew... and there is a lot of great information in this thread.

One thing I noticed is that nobody mentioned harvesting yeast from a bottle of Duvel. In an experiment with my Tripel, I harvested Orval yeast by basically dumping a little bit of cooled DME wort into a bottle of Orval dreggs. After a few days on top of the fridge, it was fermenting and smelled just like Orval. Now, a year later, the 5 bottles I dumped this into have a nice acidic character that reminds me of Orval (and it was not infected!). I have listened to cloning podcasts by Jamil and he has said something similar is expected.

There has been a lot of talk about mashing temperatures and other processes for getting the attenuation needed. I think part of the reason some people may not be getting the low FG they want is that the yeast simply doesn't attenuate that well. If you think about a professional brewery, every % point in attenuation means cost savings by requiring less grain for each batch. With millions of bottles of beer, higher attenuation will mean more profit for the brewery.

I have heard of others stepping up dreggs from some Bruery beers (20mL > 50mL > 100mL > 200mL > 500mL > 1L > 2L) and attenuation was something ridiculous like 97%. It makes sense that better yeast means you don't need as much of it (or grains) to get the same amount of alcohol through better attenuation.

Even if you find out what yeast a brewery uses for its beer it does not guarantee you will get that beer. I guarantee that the house strain at Duvel has mutated away from whatever strain it started from initially (WLP570 is mentioned in the first post of this thread). I'm curious if anybody else has used Duvel dreggs and whether they were successful. I will post my results from my next brew, but it will be a few months :)
 
Found this thread in a search. Recently did a batch similar to this recipe, but used dark candi sugar for added color. I did a single infusion mash at 144. Fermented at 69 for two days with WLP545, then ramped it up to 75 and added 2 pounds of corn sugar. Finished at 1.0005. Pretty darn dry and 11.5% ABV. Bottling this weekend.
 
Used the Jamil recipe. 80/20 pils malt and sugar. Mash @ 149. Hops were Wilamette at 75 and 45. Maybe a half ounce each time. 30 min add one oz Saaz.

90 min boil. SG was 1.074. Goal was 1.072. At about a week, it was down to 1.009. Quite fruity taste with some peppery thing going on. Wyeast 1388. About two days at 60. Then heated up over three days to 81.

I used beet sugar. The cheap stuff from Aldi. By boiling it for 75 min, you in theory should make invert sugar by time and heat alone.

Still copious yeast in suspension.

I see people adding fruit and **** to this recipe. Totally unnecessary. It is plenty, and I mean bordering on excessive, fruity.
 
highgravitybacon said:
There is no consensus. If it works at boil, add at boil. If it wouldn't attenuate, add during fermentation.

Huh?

What are the differences I can expect between adding the sugar at the start of the boil, end of boil, or in the primary? Is there no difference?
 
Huh?

What are the differences I can expect between adding the sugar at the start of the boil, end of boil, or in the primary? Is there no difference?

It depends. Try it and see. Nobody has your kettle, your fermenter, or your setup. The simplest is to put it in during the boil. But if you're not getting the attenuation you want, put it in during fermentation. This is a recommendation from Brewing Classic Styles.

You seem frustrated at the answer, but you are dealing with a living organism and thousands of variables. What works for me won't work for you every time. Hence, the no consensus.
 
I think the 'it depends' statement may really translate to: are you trying to duplicate the Duvel process, or are you just trying to brew a good Golden Strong?

In my opinion, and in my homebrewing experience, cloning a specific Belgian beer is quite hard to attain. Whereas, I've had great success brewing Belgian-style ales in general. With American styles, if you match the malt bill and hop schedule, you can get pretty close to spot on. However, with Belgians, there are often so few ingredients you're really left trying to mimic the respective breweries processes and proprietary 'x-factors'.

For example, take Duvel .... (I wish I could find the link to this old obscure-looking article I found a while back, which had specific times, temps, and gravities, but here it is paraphrased)
#1 - Ramp style mash - bring malt from somewhere in the 120-130F range up to 160F at a constant rate over the course of 90 or so minutes. Of course, the grain they use is malted specifically for Moortgat to their specifications.
#2 - After boil, where SOME of the sugar is added (they mention dextrose/corn sugar), the wort is split into two separate fermentations with 2 proprietary yeast strains to each respectively. From what I remember, one strain provides most of the signature esters and flavors but is not as attenuative while the other is more neutral in flavor but highly attenuative. One of the yeasts is Scottish in origin.
#3 - After primary fermentation is complete, the batches are lagered for 2-3 weeks.
#4 - The batches are blended together in unknown proportions, brought back up to ale ferm. temp (low 60's F), and the rest of the dextrose and more yeast (of the high attenuation type) is added.
#5 - After a slower secondary fermentation (10-14 days) is complete, the beer undergoes a second lagering phase.
#6 - bottle conditioning - plenty of info online for this step

Whew!!
 
Assuming that Duvel does use corn sugar and a yeast strain at least similar to the WLP570 that is claimed to be 'the one', I have found in my own attempts that I simply do not like either one of those ingredients used in this context and have just dropped the whole mission to clone it. Corn sugar puts off these cidery flavors, and I just don't really like WLP570 with anything I've tried. And this may be because of my brew setup as highgravitybacon alludes to. Those elements don't work for me and thus I have found what DOES work for me in creating a pleasurable Golden Strong.

Its also your taste. What do you want? I like it super dry so I both mash low and add sugar (evaporated cane juice crystals or clear candi syrup) during primary. Also, I oxygenate well before pitching and do open primary fermentations, so I consistently hit the higher end of attenuation with whatever strain I'm using. If I want a little more body, I'll either mash a little higher or add all the sugar to the boil. There is a flavor difference because of the carmelization that happens in the kettle. Sugar added to the fermenter, in my taste, has a 'raw' sort of flavor. "Tastes like sugar" whereas the boiled sugar incorporates with the malt better in my taste. And in that case, I don't mind the flavor of boiled dextrose or cheap white sugar, but can't stand it unboiled.

Whatever you do, I think the style requires some personal experimentation. Good luck!
 
Very nice. Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Guess its time for me to start experimenting...first up - Pranqster clone. Lets see how close I can get; or end up with a good Strong Golden Ale, anyway.

Prost!
 
So I make beer and my dad makes wine and I want to try and make a collaboration brew with some grape juice in it. My dad has some old vine Zinfandel grapes and I was thinking I'd use this Duvel recipe for the beer. I want to put grape juice in the primary with the beer yeast. Anybody have any thoughts how this would work out? Too fruity? And thoughts on not adding the sugar as the grape juice should be very fermentable? I was thinking of doing something around a 4/1 ratio beer to grape juice. maybe 9/1

Thanks
 
Question about fermentation temps for Duvel or similar GSA?
After fermentor temp is ramped to 80 deg F (over 1 week) should I just leave it at 80F for a few weeks?
OR drop back down to 70 deg F after a period of time for additional conditioning in the primary?
 
Question about fermentation temps for Duvel or similar GSA?
After fermentor temp is ramped to 80 deg F (over 1 week) should I just leave it at 80F for a few weeks?
OR drop back down to 70 deg F after a period of time for additional conditioning in the primary?

Once fermentation is done, I would (did) lager it at 30f for a few weeks to clear it up. Mine tastes kind of boozy. Not sure if I under pitched, ramped temps up too quickly or what. I'm not sure if I f-ed it up.

I've been lagering it for a while, and I'll bottle condition for a few months and see if it turns out.
 
I think the 'it depends' statement may really translate to: are you trying to duplicate the Duvel process, or are you just trying to brew a good Golden Strong?

In my opinion, and in my homebrewing experience, cloning a specific Belgian beer is quite hard to attain. Whereas, I've had great success brewing Belgian-style ales in general. With American styles, if you match the malt bill and hop schedule, you can get pretty close to spot on. However, with Belgians, there are often so few ingredients you're really left trying to mimic the respective breweries processes and proprietary 'x-factors'.

For example, take Duvel .... (I wish I could find the link to this old obscure-looking article I found a while back, which had specific times, temps, and gravities, but here it is paraphrased)
#1 - Ramp style mash - bring malt from somewhere in the 120-130F range up to 160F at a constant rate over the course of 90 or so minutes. Of course, the grain they use is malted specifically for Moortgat to their specifications.
#2 - After boil, where SOME of the sugar is added (they mention dextrose/corn sugar), the wort is split into two separate fermentations with 2 proprietary yeast strains to each respectively. From what I remember, one strain provides most of the signature esters and flavors but is not as attenuative while the other is more neutral in flavor but highly attenuative. One of the yeasts is Scottish in origin.
#3 - After primary fermentation is complete, the batches are lagered for 2-3 weeks.
#4 - The batches are blended together in unknown proportions, brought back up to ale ferm. temp (low 60's F), and the rest of the dextrose and more yeast (of the high attenuation type) is added.
#5 - After a slower secondary fermentation (10-14 days) is complete, the beer undergoes a second lagering phase.
#6 - bottle conditioning - plenty of info online for this step

Whew!!

I remember reading a similar article. Makes me despair at ever doing a really good clone.
 
After reading all of these pages I think I've found my inspiration for a crazy high gravity Belgian Golden Strong. I've wanted the challenge of brewing a quality high abv beer, and the opportunity to do some more Belgians. So...hijacking this recipe sounded like a perfect idea! Any suggestions to my proposed shenanigans?

5 Gallons
OG 1.091
FG 1.006
ABV 11.14%
5.5 SRM
34 IBU

90 minute boil
16# Pilsner (Bel)
10oz Carapils
1# Corn Sugar (added @ 15 min)
1# Clear Candi Sugar (added @ 15 min)

1 oz Saaz FWH
1.25 Strian Goldings @90 Min
1 oz Saaz 15 min
1 oz Citra dry hop 7 days

Yeast - yeast cake from 1.050 brew using Wyeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity
Mash - 75 minutes at 150 so it's nice and dry.


I realize Citra isn't traditional, but I think the hop would really add to the aroma. Especially since it will dissipate with time since I'm bottle conditioning this beer.

What temp should I ferment at? Start at mid 60's and bring it up? Or just let it slowly gurgle away 65? Suggestions on staggering the sugar additions to keep the yeasties eating away?

Any suggestions would be appreciated! I'll be brewing this one the first of feb. I wasn't sure if people would read it, but I did post it here too https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/double-duval-381508/#post4785140
 
3737 isnt usually the yeast of golden strong, but it would handle the abv, so not bad choice. Adding half of sugar after primary begins to slow would be a fail safe that i would use. I love the citra plan! All in all it will be a massive success as is tho. So youve done good.
 
Wanted to share my results on this thread since it is close my attempt at Jamil's Duvel clone recipe from Brewing Classic Styles. I did this recipe PM, BIAB with a 7.5 gallon kettle on my stove top. Here are the stats:

7 lbs Pils Two-Row
3 lbs Pilsen DME
2.5 lbs Cane sugar @30 minutes
US Saaz and Styrian Golding additions to hit 33 IBU

-Mash Pils and DME together @147 for 2 hours. Dunk sparge @165 for 10 minutes.
-Added a gallon of spring water to reach ~6 gallons going into boil
-90 minute boil
-Chill
-Aerate with drill mixer
-Pitched 3 packs of 1388
-OG 1.084 (anticipated only 1.079 w/75% efficiency)
-Ferment for 3 days at 66degF
-Raise temp to 80degF and hold for 5 days
-Let temp settle back to ambient ~68degF

After 11 days total my FG was 1.006!!! ~10% ABV. Gravity sample was a little boozy but also could pick up some fruityness like a cross between tangerine and Asian pear in the background. I plan on letting this sit in the fermenter at room temp for about two more weeks before I keg it and let it carb at 12 PSI.

My results confirm that yes, you can remash DME with base grain to make it more fermentable. I'm very encouraged by how things have come along so far and encourage anyone to try this recipe if you are looking for a Duvel clone.
 
Brewed my first BGSA and it turned out well after a couple months of aging, however, there is not a lot of the fruity yeast esters that I get from commercial examples of BGSA.

Is this typical of the Duvel yeast strain?

Maybe I will do the temp ramp soon on my next batch. This batch fermented quickly with good attenuation but without much krausen compared to the american ale yeast strains I typically use.
 
Once fermentation is done, I would (did) lager it at 30f for a few weeks to clear it up. Mine tastes kind of boozy. Not sure if I under pitched, ramped temps up too quickly or what. I'm not sure if I f-ed it up.

I've been lagering it for a while, and I'll bottle condition for a few months and see if it turns out.

I'm planning doing a couple of brews the last weekend before school starts, the BYO Ommegang Abbey clone, and the OP's Duvel recipe, and was looking for suggestions about fermentation schedules and temperature control.

1.) If I did both the Ommegang and Duvel recipes on the same day, could I let them both naturally ramp up to their max temperature, and then hold it there? I know Ommegang ferments in the 76-84 range, but if I let the Duvel clone climb up into that range, am I still going to get a decent Duvel taste?

2.) I don't have a chest freezer/temp control setup (top of my wishlist). Instead, I've got an office closet, a pretty effective space heater (to hold ambient temperatures), and fermometers. If the max temp from above is, say, 80, will I get a reasonable result from setting ambient temp in the room to 80 and monitoring it closely? I tried the Pink Elephants Delirium Tremens clone this way and it came out tasty, but nothing like DT (almost no Belgian character). I drastically underpitched the Wyeast 1388, and had pretty awful mash temp control, so I wasn't sure how much the fermentation temp setup contributed to the final result.

Thanks everyone!
 
I don't understand the mash schedule. Specifically, these parts:

Mash in at 100F, ramp temp to 170F over 135 minutes
Mash in with 3.8 gallons US of water at 105.1 F

How does one mash-in twice? If someone can break it down for me I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!
 
I don't understand the mash schedule. Specifically, these parts:

Mash in at 100F, ramp temp to 170F over 135 minutes
Mash in with 3.8 gallons US of water at 105.1 F

How does one mash-in twice? If someone can break it down for me I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

Make it even simpler. Target a mash temp of 149F for 60 min.
 
I've brewed this beer last week but now I've realized that when it will be over with secondary fermentation I'll be back in school so I won't be able to bottle it. Do you think I can bottle it only after 2 weeks in primary and 1 week in secondary? or should I do 1 week primary and 2 secondary? or should I stick with the fermentation schedule listed above?
 
I don't understand the mash schedule. Specifically, these parts:

Mash in at 100F, ramp temp to 170F over 135 minutes
Mash in with 3.8 gallons US of water at 105.1 F

How does one mash-in twice? If someone can break it down for me I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

It's not telling you to mash in twice; just two different aspects of the mash. Basically, it's saying to use 3.8 gal water at a strike temp of 105.1, which should give you a starting mash temp of 100, which you then ramp up to 170 over 135 min...
 
One thing that I've seen on here for a few Belgian recipes is the transferring to a secondary. Is it really necessary?
 
One thing that I've seen on here for a few Belgian recipes is the transferring to a secondary. Is it really necessary?

No. I made this recipe again. It actually turned out quite nice the first time. The second time, I swapped out some of the pils malt for american two row to have a more neutral flavor.

This go round, I used a temp controlled fridge. Pitched at 64 and raised to 80F by day four. Did not oxygenate this time (I forgot). It's a bit less estery. But smoother than the real duvel. I just left it in primary for the whole time, even the temp drop to 29F, where I added gelatin finings to clear it up. Once clear, I bottled. No secondary.
 
There's been little talk of the Duvel Tripel Hop on the forums and I think that's a real shame.. when I was working in Brussels I acquired a real taste for the 2013 version :tank:

Basically it's a hopped up (dry hops and possibly a late aroma addition) +1% ABV (9.5%) and each year they make it with a different hop.

2011: Amarillo
2012: Citra
2013: Sorachi Ace
2014: Mosaic

A few places put the it around 50 IBU, which is a nice step up from ~30 IBU of the classic Duvel.

I'm considering brewing the Sorachi Ace version with a 5 minute addition and dry hopping, but still thinking about just how many hops to add. Given the complexity of some Duvel clones I'm thinking this is going to be more 'inspired by' the Tripel Hop as opposed to a clone.
 
There's been little talk of the Duvel Tripel Hop on the forums and I think that's a real shame.. when I was working in Brussels I acquired a real taste for the 2013 version :tank:

Basically it's a hopped up (dry hops and possibly a late aroma addition) +1% ABV (9.5%) and each year they make it with a different hop.

2011: Amarillo
2012: Citra
2013: Sorachi Ace
2014: Mosaic

A few places put the it around 50 IBU, which is a nice step up from ~30 IBU of the classic Duvel.

I'm considering brewing the Sorachi Ace version with a 5 minute addition and dry hopping, but still thinking about just how many hops to add. Given the complexity of some Duvel clones I'm thinking this is going to be more 'inspired by' the Tripel Hop as opposed to a clone.

I was lucky enough to try a bottle of the 2014 version last month when on a day trip in Belgium. Phuchen tasty!

I should probably try clone the normal version first but I can buy that everywhere over here for about a Euro a bottle.

So a 10 g split batch Triple Hop will be planned.

I've been brewing a lot with Amarillo lately so I'll skip that one.
It probably tastes a lot like Houblon anyway.

I have a few ounces of Citra so that will be used for the first 5g.
For the second half I think I'll try something that they haven't done yet.
Probably Galaxy or Falconer's Flight.

Just have to figure out how they increase the fermentable to get the extra 1% alc. More pils or more sugar or more of both?

The recipe is in the pipeline for these guys

http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html

So maybe see what they come up with?
However I think they will lean more towards adding more sugar for obvious reasons :)
 
I see this thread has been dormant for a few years. Hoping for some help as it relates to fermentation schedule.

I have brewed an extract version of this recipe. I hit 1.082 OG and the WLP570 was off and running almost immediately (hopefully on its way to <= 1.007 FG) I'm currently 2 days in to primary.

I have been combing through this thread, as well as reading different fermenting schedules in several Duvel clone recipes and also this:
https://byo.com/mead/item/1207-on-the-yeast-guide-to-bottle-conditioning

There seems to be a variety of subtle differences in all of the information I'm swimming in. Based on the information in this thread, it would appear that subtle variation does in fact impact the final results.

I'm not overly concerned about producing drop dead duplicate Duvel (a quad-D, if you will). This thread has helped set my expectation level. I am hoping to have something that at least tastes like a BGSA, maybe hints of a Duvel flavor. That said, I do want to do everything in my ability to stick to the proper fermentation schedule. This is where it would be great to get some input. Based on everything I've read, this is what I'm planning on doing:

- 5 days in primary, getting to 80 degrees by the final day
- Rack to secondary and add dosage sugar
- Lager for 14 - 21 days at 28 degrees
- Add additional yeast (planning on going with same WLP570) and sugar, bottle
- 21 days in bottle at 68-70 degrees
- 7 days at 60 degrees
- Drink

For those of you with experience, can you comment on this schedule? If I'm doing something ill advised or perhaps out of the norm for this style, would you mind pointing that out?

The article that I linked above seems to imply that yeast was added twice after the initial pitch. Could that be correct, or am I misreading? Seems like the only reason to add more yeast before the bottle conditioning step would be if you stall out prematurely?

There was reply in this thread earlier that mentioned 2 different lagering phases. Has anyone else done this?

Many thanks in advance for any help. Cheers!
 
I see this thread has been dormant for a few years. Hoping for some help as it relates to fermentation schedule.

I have brewed an extract version of this recipe. I hit 1.082 OG and the WLP570 was off and running almost immediately (hopefully on its way to <= 1.007 FG) I'm currently 2 days in to primary.

I have been combing through this thread, as well as reading different fermenting schedules in several Duvel clone recipes and also this:
https://byo.com/mead/item/1207-on-the-yeast-guide-to-bottle-conditioning

There seems to be a variety of subtle differences in all of the information I'm swimming in. Based on the information in this thread, it would appear that subtle variation does in fact impact the final results.

I'm not overly concerned about producing drop dead duplicate Duvel (a quad-D, if you will). This thread has helped set my expectation level. I am hoping to have something that at least tastes like a BGSA, maybe hints of a Duvel flavor. That said, I do want to do everything in my ability to stick to the proper fermentation schedule. This is where it would be great to get some input. Based on everything I've read, this is what I'm planning on doing:

- 5 days in primary, getting to 80 degrees by the final day
- Rack to secondary and add dosage sugar
- Lager for 14 - 21 days at 28 degrees
- Add additional yeast (planning on going with same WLP570) and sugar, bottle
- 21 days in bottle at 68-70 degrees
- 7 days at 60 degrees
- Drink

For those of you with experience, can you comment on this schedule? If I'm doing something ill advised or perhaps out of the norm for this style, would you mind pointing that out?

The article that I linked above seems to imply that yeast was added twice after the initial pitch. Could that be correct, or am I misreading? Seems like the only reason to add more yeast before the bottle conditioning step would be if you stall out prematurely?

There was reply in this thread earlier that mentioned 2 different lagering phases. Has anyone else done this?

Many thanks in advance for any help. Cheers!
Just saw this and wondered how this turned out for you as I just brewed an AG version of it last weekend. I planned on kegging it but I'm on the fence about bottling at the moment.
 
I would like to get some feedback on this approach to my Belgian Golden Strong (not necessarily a Duvel clone) and this thread has been very helpful so hopefully I can get some good advice here. I've never brewed one and looking forward to it!

  • 14.5lbs Pilsen
  • 2.75lbs of Candi Syrup (Golden, 5 SRM)
  • 0.65 oz Magnum @ 60 minutes
  • 0.5 oz Saaz at 10 min
  • 1 oz Saaz at 0 minutes
  • 1 oz Perle dry hop

  • Mash in at 153 for a rest at 144 for 60 minutes, start ramping the temperature to 156 over 30 minutes and hold at 156 for 10 more minutes, then mash out at 168. (A hockhurz mash schedule)
  • Bring to a boil and add 1.75lbs of Candi syrup and follow the hop schedule
  • Chill to pitching temp (68F) and pitch a standard ale sized starter of WLP500 (I prefer fruity over spice/phenolic)
  • Ferment at 68F for 5 days then start ramping the temperature to 78F by 2 degrees per day
  • Transfer to a keg and keep on low CO2 pressure to prevent oxygen ingress - and then cold crash down to 32 for 14 days
  • Warm back up to 71 and add 1lb of Candi Syrup and an additional pitch of WLP570
  • Allow a secondary fermentation to occur with a spunding valve on the keg set to 3 Vol's of CO2
  • Chill and lager for an additional 14 days before serving
Any feedback on the process is very much appreciated!
 
Thanks for that. :mug:
Still need to read it all but even though I have a load of empty Duvel bottles I could use I'd still be a bit concerned about that much carbonation.
More so about over carbination/gushers than the bottles exploding as they are made for that pressure.
 
Duvel Clone

Style Belgian Golden Strong Ale
Efficiency 70.00 %
Pre-boil Volume 7.40 gallons US
OG 1.072
IBU 31.8
Mash Ratio 1.2 qt/l
Post-boil Volume 5.30 gallons US
FG 1.006
SRM 4.4
Mash Time 135 min
Boil Time 90 min
Yeast WLP570 Belgian Golden Ale Yeast
ABV 8.7 %
Evaporation 1.4 gallons
Attenuation 91.00 %

Mash Schedule
Mash in at 100F, ramp temp to 170F over 135 minutes
Mash in with 3.8 gallons US of water at 105.1 F
sparge 170 Sparge with 5.4 gallons US
Collect 7.4 gallons US

Fermentables
Belgian Pils 12 lb 84.2 % 1.035/lb/gal 1.8 Mash
Belgian Carapils 9 oz 3.9 % 1.030/lb/gal 7.9 Mash
Corn Sugar 27 oz 11.8 % 1.046/lb/gal 0 Steep
Totals: 14.25 pounds 100% 1.072 4.4

Hops
Saaz 0.75 oz Pellet 4.0 FWH 90
Styrian Golding 1.2 oz Pellet 5.0 Boil 90
Saaz 1 oz Pellet 4.0 Boil 15
Totals: 2.95 ounces 31.8 IBU

Transfer to secondary after 14 days, add 11oz. corn sugar to secondary and yeast nutrient.

Carbonation
CO2 Volume Pressure Serving TempaTTempaT5TempaT51~
2.5 11.25 pstrtytryryrtrai 38.0F
t
Tsddtertttt5rtttrtytyrtrt
 
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