whole hops vs pellets...

Ok old topic, but I'm curious what everyone has noticed personally on the difference in their beers using whole or pellet hops. I've been doing whole hops on the last few batches and I'd guess, though I can't really say for sure, that my dry hopped beers have had much nicer aroma from the whole hops.

However, for the hops added during the boil I can't say I think there's too much of a difference and I've hit one major problem... They eat up a lot of wort. My boil kettle is only 7 gallons which makes it hard to boil much extra without losing it in boilovers. I find that when I collect as much wort as I can reasonably boil, the hops suck up enough that I'm left with barely 5 gallons after siphoning and cooling. Then I lose some more to trub in primary/secondary leaving me with 4-4.5 gallon batches. Grrr.

For this reason, until I can get a bigger brew pot, I'm thinking of switching back to pellets for the boil. Or is there another way I can get around this problem?

Well I use strictly whole hops. I am a big fan of minimally processed ingredients. I completely notice a difference in the finishing if they are quality hops that have been stored well. As for the wort, I just leave it sit in a conical strainer. The hops pull out pretty much all of the break with them. I still lose some wort but not enough to worry about.

I like pellets for bittering and whole for dry-hopping. Flavor can be either. Whole is better for aroma, but I'll use pellets if that's what I have. I hate using pellets for dry hopping, bloody mess and they just don't do as good a job.

If you do pellets for bittering and flavor, that would cut your losses.

I have only used pellets so far, but one thing I have noticed about them that I do not like is when I get a hot break and everything starts frothing, the disentigrated pellets tend to stick to the side of the pot as the froth subsides. I have to take my spoon and push them back into the wort. I would assume that this would have an affect on the total IBUs if I don't notice it soon enough and get them back into the wort.

I most often end up using pellets for bittering and whole for everything else. Overall, pellets are a PITA because of the resultant sludge they turn into but they are more consistent, IMO, for bittering than whole due to the whole 'how old are they', 'how were they stored' issues that concern whole hops. That being said, I have about 8 ounces of whole Cascades from freshhops.com in the fridge and I am having a hell of a time not cutting a little hole in the bag and hittin' 'em.

I like whole hops. The end product is better IMO.


Dan

Fiery Sword said:

Overall, pellets are a PITA because of the resultant sludge they turn into

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Dang you know, I had briefly pondered why my first batches had considerably more sludge in the bottom of the primary! Heh. After about two seconds I forgot about it since the problem didn't arise anymore. So between that and the fact that they filter the break quite well I am guessing that is my answer lol.

So I guess the upshot is, I need to get a bigger kettle... Or does anyone manage to get a full amount of wort out of a 7 gallon kettle while using whole hops?

debtman7 said:

So I guess the upshot is, I need to get a bigger kettle... Or does anyone manage to get a full amount of wort out of a 7 gallon kettle while using whole hops?

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I have a ten gallon kettle. When I did partial boils I was forced to use pellets because it was only a 5 gallon kettle. Now I have plenty of room, although I would have liked to have a keg instead.


Dan

I'm the same as most, pellets in the kettle and whole hops for dry hopping. I would use whole hops for the late additions if not for the reasons many have mentioned above. It seems like processing hops into pellets takes away some of the oils responsible for aroma and flavoring, but doesn't seem to affect bittering acids too much. Any ideas on this?

A herb ball is the way to go for pellets IMHO. Loose hops in the boil pot is just too much of a mess for me. At $0.50 each for disposable hop socks the herb ball will have paid for its self after about 12 uses. 6 uses now that I'm doing 10 gal. Plus I can suspend it and not have to worry about it getting scorched.

Abra, I do the same thing often when using whole hops. I've read that as long as the hops are not over-crowded in the bag, utilization rates only vary a little bit. If you really pack 'em in there you will get different utilization.

Fiery Sword said:

Abra, I do the same thing often when using whole hops. I've read that as long as the hops are not over-crowded in the bag, utilization rates only vary a little bit. If you really pack 'em in there you will get different utilization.

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For whole hops and plugs I got 2 stainless steel wire mesh sink strainers and wired them together. They are bigger than the herb ball and the wire mesh is no where near as fine. Works like a charm.

i like the flowers better, however, the local brew supply seems to have gotten a bit more expensive, and the hops seem to be of lesser quality. they sell the jd carlson 'leaf' hops in a vacum sealed baggie. i've gotten alot of crushed hops and stems... so i switched back to the pellets.

maybe after the next harvest they'll be better.

i use irish moss, and really swirl the kettle at the end of the boil, the hops and hot break usually mushroom up and stick together in a bloated mass, and hardly any gets transfered.

when i use leaf hops, i just cram the racking cane down into them, they form a natural filter, it sometimes takes a bit longer to rack to primary, but i have super clear beer.

uglygoat said:

i like the flowers better, however, the local brew supply seems to have gotten a bit more expensive, and the hops seem to be of lesser quality. they sell the jd carlson 'leaf' hops in a vacum sealed baggie. i've gotten alot of crushed hops and stems... so i switched back to the pellets.

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uglygoat, have a look at freshops. I did a side by side comparison of a bag from the supplier you mention and freshops. The difference was literally night and day. Plus the prices are really good at freshops.

I use both. Whole hops suck up a bunch of wort, but they are much easier to strain out. My LHBS sells pellets in 2 oz and 8 oz packages, while whole hops come in 4 oz or 8 oz Packages. If it's a hop that I will probably only use for one brew or so and not need a bunch, I'll get the pellets. If it's a variety that I use frequently (Cascade, Northern Brewer) I'll get the whole. Some are only in pellet form (Amarillo, Styrian Goldings).

I tend to use pellets because I find them to be easy to use, take up less area in storage, store better, longer, and most importanlyt - I can get a wide variety of them from the local breweries really cheap.

But I love fresh hops as well, but I don't tend to have them around. I don't like storing ingredients and so buying from the local breweries makes pellets the way to go.

thanks for the link zoe, it reminded me i need to order the rizhomes this week as well!!!

No whole hops out here in Hawaii (maybe special order?). When I get to WA, it'll be alot easier. Freshops is in OR. I am even considering planting a few just to do it.

uglygoat said:

i like the flowers better, however, the local brew supply seems to have gotten a bit more expensive, and the hops seem to be of lesser quality. they sell the jd carlson 'leaf' hops in a vacum sealed baggie. i've gotten alot of crushed hops and stems... so i switched back to the pellets.

maybe after the next harvest they'll be better.

i use irish moss, and really swirl the kettle at the end of the boil, the hops and hot break usually mushroom up and stick together in a bloated mass, and hardly any gets transfered.

when i use leaf hops, i just cram the racking cane down into them, they form a natural filter, it sometimes takes a bit longer to rack to primary, but i have super clear beer.

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The ID Carlson hops definately suck... I have yet to manage to get a decent whirlpool with whole hops, there's just too much of it. And last time I just tried to siphon through the whole hops, my autosiphon broke as I tried to pump the wort through the siphon clogged with hop leaves...

Pellets for boil, plugs for dry hop.
Plugs are great cuz you can just tear them in half and throw them in a bag w/ some weights and dump them in the secondary. No messing with leafs everywhere.

i've switched back to pellets. i think whole hops give you better hop extraction - but pellets will hardly ever loose their potency.

McKBrew said:

No whole hops out here in Hawaii (maybe special order?). When I get to WA, it'll be alot easier. Freshops is in OR. I am even considering planting a few just to do it.

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Are you sure the Ag inspector will let you bring rhizomes into Hi?

Better check before you order. And double check before you try bringing them over on an airplane yourself.

Pellets for bittering, and whole hops/plugs for the rest.

What is the conversion from pellets to whole hops?
Thanks

I was told 1oz pellet and 1oz whole hopps is the same.
Just that whole is easier to strain out them pellets.

I feel it might be like the old question, what weights more? 1lb feathers or 1lb water? hehe

I've gone to using whole hops only, if for no other reason than I'd rather look at the bottom of my brew pan and see hop flowers instead of plug muck.

Whole hops have a lower utilization according to the Brew Master's Bible. For a 60 minute boil with plugs, you get 30% utilization. For whole hops, you get 25% utilitzation.

The rule of thumb I've seen is 1oz. pellets = 1.1oz. whole hops.

I use whole or plug hops primarily because of the filtering aspects of it.