Input on Fermentation "closet"

I'm looking for some input on my next big project, a fermentation closet. Currently I brew in my garage, then carry the full fermentor into the house to a spare room and put it in the closet. I would like to frement in the garage. The garage doesn't seem to get to cold in the winter (low 50's) but it gets real hot in the summers (90+). Hince the need for a fermanation closet. I'm looking at about 6' long, 2' wide, and 6' tall. I can keep fermentors, cornies, etc in it. I will use a temp control for both heat and cooling. Heating is easy, a simple small ceramic heater will do, but for cooling I was thinking of a small window unit. But, will there be an issue with the window unit being used inside (in the closed garage)?

Even the smallest window unit will cool that sized area down in a few seconds. It would rarely be on, so I think it would be fine in a garage. This guys has a sweat setup., but it is an ice bath for cooling which can be a pain. Do you have a frig/freezer near by. You could port a duct over a rob some of the cool air.

The problem is that the Garage is going to get really hot because the AC unit is going to cooling the frementation closet, and then the A/C unit is going to have to work harder, generating more heat, so on and so on.

I have seen people build heat exchangers using a refrigerator. you would have a reservoir of water in the refrigerator and connect this to a radiator inside the closet, and use an aquarium pump to circulate to cold water through the radiator. I don't know how efficient this setup is, but it might work if you built a smaller closet.

Here is this guys fermentation Box.

My boss has a shed in his back yard with an A/C unit and a heater for fermenting wine. When I get a backyard, thats the way i'm going. Fermentation Shed.

Thanks guys. I am worried about it (ac unit) overheating the garage. I just don't know how big of a concern it is really. It would be cooling a small space.
I do have an old freezer we use in the garage, not sure how to duct cold air from it. I'm afraid I would cut a line or something. I wanted a closet so I could put it on wheels and move it. May be I just build it against an exterior garage wall and use the ac unit through that. I just hate not being able to move it. I do not want to use ice. Any more ideas?

Bsquared said:

The problem is that the Garage is going to get really hot because the AC unit is going to cooling the frementation closet, and then the A/C unit is going to have to work harder, generating more heat, so on and so on.

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I could be wrong, but as long as his closet is well insulated the A/C unit would not run much and therefore not make much heat. Can't be much worse than having a chest freeze in your garage.

JnJ said:

I do have an old freezer we use in the garage, . Any more ideas?

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use the freezer and a thermostat to maintain the temp you want.

I agree with Bsquared a window unit not vented to the outside is a bad idea.

You could just take the door off your old freezer (no lines there) and cool the space (maybe not as big is you wanted).

Also, the AC will spit out some water from the humidity from the closet, plan for this. I don't think you will overheat the garage that much especially if you can leave a door or window open near by.

We like to keep the garage closed because of my tools and stuff. May be some vents in the garage door or a wall would help?

Can't you just use the freezer as your fermentation closet? Connect it to a Ranco or Johnson temperature controller to maintain the temp.

Yuri_Rage said:

Can't you just use the freezer as your fermentation closet? Connect it to a Ranco or Johnson temperature controller to maintain the temp.

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That's what I'm trying to say Yuri did a much better job wording it.

A window unit is inefficient to begin with couple that with the hot air in your garage and then the A/c will heat that air up even higher making it more inefficient. You'll be wasting a ton of money and getting very little cooling. If you could vent the A/C condenser air to the outside that would work. Or put a powered vent in you garage. I don't think a passive vent would be all that helpful but it's better that nothing.

No, we keep food in the freezer.....I'm not looking to maintain lagering temps, I'm looking for 65-70degrees.

I'm looking for something like your brew closet, but about double the width.

JnJ said:

No, we keep food in the freezer.....I'm not looking to maintain lagering temps, I'm looking for 65-70degrees.

I'm looking for something like your brew closet, but about double the width.

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Well, you can see how mine is constructed - I recommend something similar. However, I think you really ought to vent the A/C outside.

I've been toying with the window unit idea too but now I'm leaning towards the units with a radiator and remote cooling. It will certainly be more energy friendly. I encourage you to take another look. If you don't want to hassle with ice/water maybe use dry ice? Haven't checked the prices to see if this would really be workable.

I've also been toying with the idea of tearing down the window unit and mounting the evaporater remotely inside my fermentor closet. Haven't had the case off but I suspect that it's very hard to do this without opening the AC circuit though...

Well using ice for a unit this size would tie you to it. I want to be able to leave for a week and come back without worrying if the ice is all going to melt.
Our garage faces the front of the house so a window unit would have to go through the brick wall and stick out the side of the house. I really don't care for that idea and neither does SWMBO.
Keep the ideas comming, the window unit attached to the closet in the garage is still winning. Any thoughts about putting in vents through the garage door to help the unit?

JnJ said:

No, we keep food in the freezer.....I'm not looking to maintain lagering temps, I'm looking for 65-70degrees.

I'm looking for something like your brew closet, but about double the width.

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Edit: woops I missed the NOT looking for lagering temp.

My guess is you'll have a hard time pulling 65F in the summer in texas without venting the a/c condenser air to the outside.

I'm building a fermentation room but it'll be in the basement where it's cool all ready. I plan to pipe the cold air in or the hot air out and only plan to do ale spring, summer and fall. The lager will have to wait until winter or for a thermostatically controlled freezer or a really good refridgerator.

A room A/C unit is inefficient to begin with as it produces more heat than cool. Put that in a closed environment and you a going to pay for a lot of electricity and get a very little cooling. And your 90F garage is going to be a whole lot hotter that 90F.

I'd figure my time and materials for building the room and add the fact that it's in a poor location vs the cost of a used fridge or freezer and a thermostat. There's a big difference between the efficiency of a room A/C unit and a refridgerator / freezer.

JnJ,
I think you should do an experiment for us. Try the AC unit in the garage. I understand the theory behind everyone's concern, but I know many people who have multiple freezers in their garages without any trouble. I have a hard time seeing how a AC unit set at 65F would be any worse. Then if you feel it is too hot, move the sensor on you garage door so it leaves it cracked, add some louvers to the windows, add an attic fan, etc.

fifelee said:

JnJ,
I think you should do an experiment for us. Try the AC unit in the garage. I understand the theory behind everyone's concern, but I know many people who have multiple freezers in their garages without any trouble. I have a hard time seeing how a AC unit set at 65F would be any worse. Then if you feel it is too hot, move the sensor on you garage door so it leaves it cracked, add some louvers to the windows, add an attic fan, etc.

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That's what I was thinking--compared to some of the other alternatives (installing an AC unit in a brick wall, constructing a radiant cooling system, etc), even if you end up having to put an attic fan in your garage, that's less of an expense and hassle than some of those other tactics.

I use my old refrigerator and a Johnson thermostat (almost all homebrew websites have them.) I can put 2 6.5 gallon carboys and 48 bottles in there at one time, and keep them at a perfect 69 degrees (or whatever temp.) I don't see how it can get any easier.

fifelee said:

JnJ,
I think you should do an experiment for us. Try the AC unit in the garage. I understand the theory behind everyone's concern, but I know many people who have multiple freezers in their garages without any trouble. I have a hard time seeing how a AC unit set at 65F would be any worse. Then if you feel it is too hot, move the sensor on you garage door so it leaves it cracked, add some louvers to the windows, add an attic fan, etc.

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I think this is the route I will take. It will probably be fall until I can get it done. if it is an issue with overheating the garage, then I can adjust fire from there (put it against a wall and mount AC through it, or pipe in the ac and pipe out hot air through a vent).

Nexus555 said:

I use my old refrigerator and a Johnson thermostat (almost all homebrew websites have them.) I can put 2 6.5 gallon carboys and 48 bottles in there at one time, and keep them at a perfect 69 degrees (or whatever temp.) I don't see how it can get any easier.

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Not big enough. I'm looking to keep 6 - 8 fermentors and 4 or more cornies in there at a time.

There should be no problem running an AC window unit inside the garage when the main goal is to keep a small well insulated space in the high 60's. If your garage ambient temp is normally about 90 in the summer, it might raise it to 95. Big deal. You want to make sure you use one that will shut off completely when cooling is not called for. You can reduce the number and length of cycles by making sure the closet is well insulated, sealed for air leaks, and filled with beer or water. If you make it large enough to fit say 3 carboys and you're only fermenting one, fill two other buckets or carboys with plain water and leave them in there. The thermal mass will help regulate the overall interior temp and reduce how often the AC runs. It would also be really cool to get the AC unit's thermostat bulb into a bit of liquid because the air will cool a lot faster than the liquid.

Sure, ideally you could run the A/C through the wall because the heat generated will not add to the garage temp, but...

Bobby_M said:

There should be no problem running an AC window unit inside the garage when the main goal is to keep a small well insulated space in the high 60's. If your garage ambient temp is normally about 90 in the summer, it might raise it to 95. Big deal. You want to make sure you use one that will shut off completely when cooling is not called for. You can reduce the number and length of cycles by making sure the closet is well insulated, sealed for air leaks, and filled with beer or water. If you make it large enough to fit say 3 carboys and you're only fermenting one, fill two other buckets or carboys with plain water and leave them in there. The thermal mass will help regulate the overall interior temp and reduce how often the AC runs. It would also be really cool to get the AC unit's thermostat bulb into a bit of liquid because the air will cool a lot faster than the liquid.

Sure, ideally you could run the A/C through the wall because the heat generated will not add to the garage temp, but...

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Thanks for the input. I will give this a try and report back how it works out. it will be a little while before I get it done.

Hey man

look at the cities and states of the people telling you this is a good idea none of them are in the deep south.

Then look at the cities and states of the people telling you it's not a good idea or to use a freezer or fridge all of them in the deep south.

This is a sweet idea no matter how you do it.....being in Texas kind limits when and what you can brew without some sort of intervention

Can't wait to someday build a "brew shack" in the backyard....that would be SWEET

abracadabra said:

Hey man

look at the cities and states of the people telling you this is a good idea none of them are in the deep south.

Then look at the cities and states of the people telling you it's not a good idea or to use a freezer or fridge all of them in the deep south.

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How true. That's funny. Most people don't realize Montana gets damn hot. Usually gets over 100F for at least a week each year. July and Aug are often in the 90's, but we don’t have the humidity like you southern boys. I'm just trying to get JnJ to do extreme conditions testing for me. {sinister laugh} If it works in Texan, it will defiantly work in Montana.

Why can't the whole thing go outside? Here's an expanded picture of my back porch. We never use that door on the left, and you can barely see it through the window that it's nearest.

I live in a small neighborhood on less than 1/4 acre, and I managed the space for this...

I really can't brew on the patio, 1) full of outdoor furniture, 2) the roof is crappy and leaks real bad, wouldn't be able to brew on rainy days [will be replaced but that is years off, addition to back of house, etc.], 3) I brew in the garage, all my stuff is there, this is to make things easier.

fifelee said:

How true. That's funny. Most people don't realize Montana gets damn hot. Usually gets over 100F for at least a week each year. July and Aug are often in the 90's, but we don’t have the humidity like you southern boys. I'm just trying to get JnJ to do extreme conditions testing for me. {sinister laugh} If it works in Texan, it will defiantly work in Montana.

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LOL

I wondered if you where in Montana or Scotland, UK.