Infusion Step Mashing question.

I have been trying to wrap my head around a step mash for a recipe that I have some Rye malt and Wheat malt in, and the main question that I have been pondering is:

How many qt/lb of strike water would be necessary for a protien rest of ~122F while allowing enough additional strike water to raise the temp to a sac rest of 150-155?

I noramlly use 1.25 qt/lb for a standard infusion. I was thinking of raising it to 1.5 qt/lb so I could use 1/2 or .75 qt/lb for the protien rest and ifuse with an additional .75 qt/lb to reach sac rest temp.

Does this sound correct?

If so, how difficult will it be to break up dough balls with a real thick mash of .75 qt/lb?

Anyone have any suggestions?

I have never attempted a step mash before, and I also want to attempt a Witbier recipe using this technique.

You have to run the numbers in software to see how much volume you'll need to get the temp up.

Just for an example, with 12lbs of grain, .75qt/lb at 135F will get you to 122F. Another .75qt/lb at 195F will get you to 154F.

IMHO though, I would only worry about protein rest in a grist made up of a lot of UNmalted grains.

Bobby_M said:

...........I would only worry about protein rest in a grist made up of a lot of UNmalted grains.

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or undermodified malt or if brewing a lager style.

At that dough-in temp you prob won't get doughballs anyway. The hotter you dough-in the more likely you are to get doughballs. A thick mash is good for protein rests but IME, .75 qt/lb is a bit too thick. Even .8 or .85 would prob be at the minimum to have a 'stirable' mash consistency (prob depends on the exact grain you're using and maybe even your crush).

It wouldn't hurt if you increased the protein rest temp a bit (even up to the low 130s), that would make it easier to do the infusion.

Step mashing with infusions is a nightmare, if you have a pot you can do them in you should really consider direct fire heating through the steps then adding the whole thing to your mash tun for runoff.

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml
I've never done a step mash, but here is a calc to figure out how much boiling water you need to raise the temp.

So a protein rest isn't recommended for malted grains or flaked adjuncts?

However, it is recommended with the use of raw grain such as raw barley, raw wheat, and ungelatinized adjuncts?

Do I have this right?

From what I read, flaked adjuncts can benefit slightly but it's not required. Just example, Randy Mosher's recipes will call for a protein rest or an adjunct mash and he gives a "cheater" recipe that replaces flaked wheat with malted wheat if you want to skip the rest.

Step mashing with infusions is a nightmare,

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Why would you say this Tonedef? I think they're a breeze.

Usually I do step mashes in my keggle. I dough in to hit the low step...then fire up the burner to hit the other steps.

If you're using a cooler...which I normally do for all my single step infusion mashes... You can make a heat stick. PVC pipe, with a water heater element in the end. I keep it in a bucket of water...and make sure it's not leaking...ie wire terminals are remaining dry!... and transfer it to my mash. Plug it into an extension cord...stir it around...unplug it. Make sure you have the element submerged whenever it's plugged it. It's not good for it to heat dry. You can bring the temperature up just by stiring the heat stick around in the mash.

Bobby_M said:

From what I read, flaked adjuncts can benefit slightly but it's not required. Just example, Randy Mosher's recipes will call for a protein rest or an adjunct mash and he gives a "cheater" recipe that replaces flaked wheat with malted wheat if you want to skip the rest.

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I noticed that in Mosher's recipes, however, I am still having some trouble understanding when and why to use certain adjuncts over their malted counterparts.

Would their be any benefit to using either wheat malt or rye malt to their flaked equivelants, other than diastatic power of the malted varieties?

For example, it is my understanding that Rye malt will impart more of a Rye spiciness than flaked rye, not too sure about wheat, nonetheless, does it all boil down to flavor?

For me, understanding adjuncts has become a sticky subject to say the least.

SpanishCastleAle said:

Why would you say this Tonedef? I think they're a breeze.

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I have never been able to hit my temps right on and always end up having to use way too much water. This leaves me with a soupy mash and usually not enough room in the cooler to mash out. If I put them in a kettle, dough in to a beta glucan rest and heat it through the rest of my steps I can keep the water ratio I want and hit my temps perfectly.

Tonedef131 said:

I have never been able to hit my temps right on and always end up having to use way too much water. This leaves me with a soupy mash and usually not enough room in the cooler to mash out. If I put them in a kettle, dough in to a beta glucan rest and heat it through the rest of my steps I can keep the water ratio I want and hit my temps perfectly.

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I always heat the infusion water hotter than my spreadsheet tells me to (can't remember where I got the equation) and then add the last quart or two slowly while monitoring the temp. Sometimes the infusion water needs to be boiling hot to hit my rest temp.

I agree that any more than 2 rest temps and the mash does tend to get thin (depending). If I need to do something like that I usually dough-in/infuse/then do a slow temp-ramp the rest of the way. And I almost always just add heat to get to mash-out. But that first infusion does save a little time.

Either way works fine...that's for sure.

SpanishCastleAle said:

Either way works fine...that's for sure.

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Absolutly, I don't have the equations you speak of and I find it easier to just heat it than try to adjust for softwares accuracy.