motorizing mill

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Csuho

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I was wanting to hear from all of you out there that motorized your mills with a motor. I was wondering about the amount of torque needed as there is a huge selection of motors out there with a huge range of torque. I have my eyes set of a gear head ac motor so I can direct drive it to my mill.

My mill 2 roller 5" long 1.5" diameter.

I can't seem to find any info on the infamous beefy bodine so any1 with that motor please chime in with the specs please.
 
Those motors were a batch for sale quite a while ago, but this is the same set-up.

Bodine AC Gear motor. 170RPM's. 1/6HP. New Ebay. $70 + bracket+ motor mounted junction box. About $35 IIRC.

At 1/6HP, 170RPM's, this thing does not bog, and eats anything but big rocks. More than enough power/torque.

42R-E Series Parallel Shaft AC Gearmotor Model 0650

Shmidling mill. Freebie.

Love joy couplings, spyder from McMaster Carr. <$15

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10-25-08_238.jpg


A monster beefy Bodine. You need a capacitor, and a bracket.

Herbach & Rademan, electric motor, power supplies, timing motor, solar panels, fans, transformers, H: 151 RPM, 100 lb/in Torque AC Gearhead Motor

mtr4527.jpg
 
There are millions of 1/3hp 1725 motors laying around from washing machines and such that you should be able to find one for cheap or free. Call your local appliance shop and see what they have laying around.
 
Henry - Wow... So no sheaves and belts? That's what's holding me up on motorizing. Not sure what to order from rather intimidating Grainger and McMaster websites... I have a 1/3hp, 1725 just sitting around while I hand crank.

There are millions of 1/3hp 1725 motors laying around from washing machines and such that you should be able to find one for cheap or free. Call your local appliance shop and see what they have laying around.

Got mine on eBay for like $30 shipped. Anyone have a parts list for the two sheaves and the belt that would work to get this puppy hooked up to a Barley Crusher? I know there are formulas for figuring out the RPMs... I'm not a big math guy.

So if anyone has motorized a BC with a 1/3hp 1725.... Would love to know EXACTLY what to order! :D

EDIT: Henry, I see your motor's going a lot slower, thus no sheaves. Gotcha.
 
Sure plain electric motors are laying around. I just bought a 3/4HP 120v for $1, to go back on a furnace squirrel cage that already has a belt and large sheave on the blower shaft. Someone must have wanted the origanl motor-I got the thing for free. Perfect for in the hot rod shop.

It is far easier and cleaner to use a gearmotor for a mill, as there is no shopping for belt and pulleys, and no guarding required. Parallel shaft gearmotors are simpler than right angle gearmotors, and generally are running a little faster.

Mine does not even require a separate capacitor.
 
So if anyone has motorized a BC with a 1/3hp 1725.... Would love to know EXACTLY what to order!
I have a monster mill, but the only difference is that you will need an adaptor for your 3/8" drive shaft to fit the 1/2" sheave. But if you use a 10" sheave for the mill and a 1.5" sheave for the motor with a 3L v-belt you will be at 189-190rpms at the mill. I got all of this from Grainger for under $50.
 
I know the rpm's I want to use which is in the 150-350 range. but torque is what I am worried about. but henry hill you say 100 in pounds is more than enough. but I dont wanna spend that much on a motor.

this is the 1 I wanted but they are out. Herbach & Rademan, electric motor, power supplies, timing motor, solar panels, fans, transformers, H: 250 RPM CCW Rotation 40 lb-in Torque

I have the use of a 1/3hp 1725 marathon motor but I dont wanna use pulleys. I'll keep looking I am sure to find something somewhere.
 
Search Gear Motors on Ebay. There's usually a zillion of them listed. You will need to look closely at the specs. Torque requirements will vary with the mill design, but for general reference, 60 inch-lbs minimum would be what I would look for. Check power requirements (AC/DC), RPMs, voltage, Torque, Rotation and sometimes duty cycle. Prices vary wildly and so do the offerings.
 
Henry & I are using nearly identical Bodine gear motors. The one I have is slower at 115 RPM and it requires a capacitor. These motors are near bulletproof and unstoppable:

3116545746_400965480f.jpg


3115715977_7f3cee8f06.jpg


3115716609_39e6995c6b_b.jpg
 
Search Gear Motors on Ebay. There's usually a zillion of them listed. You will need to look closely at the specs. Torque requirements will vary with the mill design, but for general reference, 60 inch-lbs minimum would be what I would look for. Check power requirements (AC/DC), RPMs, voltage, Torque, Rotation and sometimes duty cycle. Prices vary wildly and so do the offerings.
From my link to Bodine's site
"Specifications
Model Number 0650 [CAD Drawings]
Category Split Phase, Non-Synchronous (With Centrifugal Switch)
Speed (rpm) 170
Rated Torque (lb-in) 45
Motor HP 1/6
Volts 115
Hz 60
Phases 1
Amps 3.6
Gear Ratio 10
Radial Load (lbs) 300
Length XH (inch) 9.08
Weight (lbs) 14.5
Connection Diagram 074 10292 [Download PDF]
Capacitor Part Number This model does not require a capacitor.
Product Type 42R5BFSI-E2
Web Price: $345.10"

In my experience, 45 in/lbs works fine, at at this speed. My rollers are 10" long.

List is $345, I got mine new, without bracket or junction box for $70 off of Ebay.
The torque varies with the gearing/final RPM.
Cat22's is the next one below mine on this chart, except for some reason his has an external capacitor:

42R-E Series Parallel Shaft AC Gearmotor

Split Phase, Non-Synchronous (With Centrifugal Switch)

Model Number
Speed (rpm) Torque (lb-in) Motor HP Volts Amps Gear Ratio

&#8250; 0635
19 208 1/12 115 2.4 90
14 277 1/12 115 2.4 120
&#8250; 0637
9.4 341 1/12 115 2.4 180
&#8250; 0639
5.7 310 1/12 115 2.4 300
&#8250; 0649
340 25 1/6 115 3.6 5
&#8250; 0650
170 45 1/6 115 3.6 10
&#8250; 0651
115 68 1/6 115 3.6 15
&#8250; 0652
85 90 1/6 115 3.6 20
&#8250; 0653
57 135 1/6 115 3.6 30
&#8250; 0654
42 180 1/6 115 3.6 40
&#8250; 0655
28 270 1/6 115 3.6 60

REMEMBER:YOU WANT 110, 115, or 120 volts AC!!
 
Henry,

The motor I have is not listed on Bodine's site as it was apparently built to custom specs for some specific application. It's of the split capacitor design is the reason it requires a capacitor vs a split-phase like yours which does not. Other than that, it has 68 inch-lbs torque & 115 rpm. It's essentially identical to the one you listed except for being a split-capacitor type. The capacitors are cheap, so that wasn't a problem.

Yes, 40 in-lbs is probably sufficient for most mills. I don't know what kind of torque those big Monster Mills with the 2 inch rollers require. At 68 in-lbs, mine doesn't even break a sweat and it actually will crunch small pebbles! I think if you got your finger caught in the rollers, it might not quit before it got all the way to your toes!

FWIW, Bodine's customer service is top notch, even if you did not purchase the motor from them. I had to call to verify the wiring diagram and to find out which capacitor I needed. They were very friendly and helpful.
 
I did this setup (got to love the love-joy connections - they work great)

Initially tried hose clamps and air hose as coupliing - did not work at all - bought a love-joy

Got the gear motor on ebay. 1/2 hp Bodine gear motor turning at 90 rpm, Crankandstein 3-D mill.

Only downside - that motor is really heavy. It's overkill, but I got it for under $ 100.00 delivered. (you couldn't stall it with a pipe wrench & cheater)

P7150010.jpg
 
I did this setup (got to love the love-joy connections - they work great)

Initially tried hose clamps and air hose as coupliing - did not work at all - bought a love-joy

Got the gear motor on ebay. 1/2 hp Bodine gear motor turning at 90 rpm, Crankandstein 3-D mill.

Only downside - that motor is really heavy. It's overkill, but I got it for under $ 100.00 delivered. (you couldn't stall it with a pipe wrench & cheater)

I have the Monster Mill 3-2.0, three 2" diameter rollers 6" long. A Baldor motor with right angle gearbox as a single unit. Gearbox rated at a minimum of 20,000 hours of life. A Precision Gear gearbox. At 89 rpm's with a loveJoy direct to the mills 1/2" input shaft i'm at 181 inch / lbs torque. I want the super slow speed besides the motor / gearbox assembly was free. WinSmith is another high quality full cast iron box as is the Precision Gear for even expansion and a constant preload on the tapered bearings.
If that doesn't turn and stalls out a 1/2 hp worm drive gearbox with 1 1/2" output shaft with over 1,200 inch / lbs torque that can go to over 2,000 inch / lbs but down to 5 minutes at a time at 2,000 inch / lbs torque.
Another one with 3/4 hp is available that will be way over the top with over 5,000 inch / lbs torque. I passed on that one as it was too big even as a freebie.
 
Henry,

The motor I have is not listed on Bodine's site as it was apparently built to custom specs for some specific application. It's of the split capacitor design is the reason it requires a capacitor vs a split-phase like yours which does not. Other than that, it has 68 inch-lbs torque & 115 rpm. It's essentially identical to the one you listed except for being a split-capacitor type. The capacitors are cheap, so that wasn't a problem.

Yes, 40 in-lbs is probably sufficient for most mills. I don't know what kind of torque those big Monster Mills with the 2 inch rollers require.

With 40 inch / lbs using a 6" long roller mill like a MM3-2.0 with 2" diameter rollers your down to 6.666 inch / lbs per inch of roller length plus a 3 roller mill not two roller so more added torque is required. I may be wrong but I find this rather weak on how I read it. I'm at 30.166 inch / lbs per inch of roller length at 89 rpm's in fear of being weak on the torque output for the rollers. With only 6.666 inch / lbs per inch of roller length I would be have to see this in operation. Use a inch / lb torque wrench and pull up to 7 inch / lbs you will have that sinking feeling like you might be underpowered in the required torque needed to mill without stalling or over amping the motor. What is the duty cycle on this motor? I hope i'm wrong but at 7 inch / lbs this seems rather weak in my book. I'm not knocking your setup just adding my thoughts.
 
I have the Monster Mill 3-2.0, three 2" diameter rollers 6" long. A Baldor motor with right angle gearbox as a single unit. Gearbox rated at a minimum of 20,000 hours of life. A Precision Gear gearbox. At 89 rpm's with a loveJoy direct to the mills 1/2" input shaft i'm at 181 inch / lbs torque. I want the super slow speed besides the motor / gearbox assembly was free. WinSmith is another high quality full cast iron box as is the Precision Gear for even expansion and a constant preload on the tapered bearings.
If that doesn't turn and stalls out a 1/2 hp worm drive gearbox with 1 1/2" output shaft with over 1,200 inch / lbs torque that can go to over 2,000 inch / lbs but down to 5 minutes at a time at 2,000 inch / lbs torque.
Another one with 3/4 hp is available that will be way over the top with over 5,000 inch / lbs torque. I passed on that one as it was too big even as a freebie.

Sounds like we have similar motors - I have 1/2" shaft also, with output at 89 rpm, but I think my inch pounds of torque was 165 or something.

Way overkill, but it works nicely. And yes, I wanted something closer to 90 instead of 150+ rpm. I think it treats the grains better.

A tip for "weak" motors: do not load the hopper before turning on the motor. Gives it a little head start.
 
Very true our motors with gearbox are almost the same. Another thing these are not cheap items and the inside of these worm drive gearboxes are very high quality with preloaded tapered bearings. All iron for a even rate of expansion allowing for a constant bearing preload. My Baldor/Precision Gear unit has the worm ground and hardened into the motors shaft hence a special built motor thru Baldor as I went thru many tech people before I got the starter and capacitor specs for it then figured out how to wire it. I will have it so that it can run both directions to get my nose out of the mill or what else it might eat besides grain. My unit came off a disability ramp chair that had a rack the output pinion powered.

Many units are 24 volt powered with 30 amp DC motors, that's a 1 hp motor at 1750 rpm's with app a 8:1 serptine belt 3/4" wide into a 40:1 gearbox for 5.5 rpm's. This is a great Gearbox output unit with a 7" diameter cast iron hub on a 2" shaft that held 55' of 3/16" 7x19 aircraft cable. We used this setup on the dock and lifted a 24' 350 chebbie boat anchor powered stern drive boat with two 4" wide cargo slings. This must of been a 3,400 pound boat without this unit knowing it had a load on the gearbox.

My 1/3 hp Baldor with Precision Gear gearbox is rated at .48 hp input at 1750 motor speed. I have 1/3 hp at 1725 rpm's. The output off the gearbox is 7/8" shaft rated at 565 inch / lbs at 28.75 RPM's. I plan on adding a 1/2" diameter jackshaft 4-5 inches away and back over the top of the gearbox supported with two 1/2" ID pillow block bearings. This will allow me to gear up by 3.111 ratio with #40 sprockets 28 to 9 tooth as stated above only 5" between shafts for my 89 rpm's at the mill. The other end of the jackshaft that will be app 6" long will have a LoveJoy to direct drive the mill. I will use airbalancer's design (thanks bro) for a hopper, sorry i'm stealing your design but like it. I'm thinking smooth white plastic off a disability elevator wall material with thin angle aluminum for the frames exterior. Still all in the design stage while on the mend.

On to my main topic at hand;

My MM3-2.0 is a mess, new in box from Fred. Sorry Fred I do not believe the bushings "can pop out on their own while in shipping", this bushing is out of one of the stainless gap adjusters and sticking out beyond the end of the stainless adjuster by 0.084". This besides the other bushings sticking out of the end frames inboard towards the rollers direction by plus; 0.007", plus 0.008" on the end of the stainless adjusting knob body as well add 0.003" more for the bushing plus the 1/2" input drive bushing at a plus 0.015". All on one plate into the rollers.
The other end plate has one bushing at plus 0.010", one at plus 0.018" and the stainless adjusting knob body in at 0.008" with the bushing sticking out an additionally another 0.084" more into the rollers.

Yes told "tested and gap clearances adjusted and set at the shop on every mill before shipping them out". My end plates are scared up from the sharp edges of the rollers on both end frames also due to the bushing twisting the end frames out of square. I have a question on how the hell can this mill of been "assembled and tested before leaving the manufacture" with these problems with my mill? Bushings back out during shipping I call B/S on that answer.

I was told since my background was a licensed A&P mechanic I should be able to handle a simple bushing and mill vs what I have worked with in the past and this includes a machine shop. Hell I have a Bridgeport mill in my home shop. What if I was a regular homebrewer wanting my own grain mill and ended up with this mill?

I have measurements and pictures in my digital camera but can not post directly to this forum as I can not post as I am not a paid up member. I was once called "only a visitor on this forum" hence why not in any hurry at all to join.
Not a happy camper for this $246 mill. Another thing the 3/8" journals as well the 1/2" drive journal at the bushing contact areas need polishing as they are rough and will eat away at those bushings. They need to be polished smooth as they are yellow with bushing material embedded into the journals. If your a new owner of one I would check, polish and debur everything and set the bushing to the proper heights before you can assemble and use this mill. It is not a cheap investment. Set up properly you should increase the bushings life by many times as oillite bushings will wear away long before those rough finished 1144 steel journals. JMO's if I were you.

With the roller axle diameters at .368, .368, .370, .368, .367 and the drive at .495" with the end plate bushings on the 3/8" at .373" and the drive bushing at .498", I have .003" on the drive input shaft clearance. On the 3/8" shafts the clearances range from 0.003" to 0.006" clearance or looseness. I would rather have the journals polished smooth as well the sharp chamfered edges of the rollers smoothed down vs wearing away the bushings and scoring up the end plates more that what damage has already been done with my end plates by these rollers with sharp burs. Details make a difference.
Sorry I had to let others know that these mills need to be looked at before building your MM grain crusher if you want it to have a long wearing bushing life. I have a end gap between the rollers of 0.092" due to one bushing sticking out into one roller causing the end frame to stick out causing all rollers to have this extra end clearance of the end plate by 0.092". Not what I would call a functional mill. I will correct these problems plus add a aluminum plates with a window for grain in for the top and one for the bottom both bolted to the mill directly. This will maintain a solid frame to keep the mills end plates square as well the end clearances of the rollers set without the end frames spreading apart, moving around and flexing out of square. This will greatly increase the life of the bushings plus preventing binding of the bushings. Wear in or wear out in this case is not the proper answer. The bottom end frame plate will be made wider than the mill to attach the mill to a table or other mounting object so the mill can be mounted solid. All in the future repair and planning stages. I was told the bushings are made to stick in past the end frame plates to keep a clearance between the rollers from rubbing on the end plates. The edge surface area of these thin bushings is rather small vs if flanged bushings were used and pressed into counterbored frame end plates this allowing for a larger surface area for the rollers to rub against as well machined to allow for the bushings to stick inside the end frames keeping the rollers away from the aluminum end frames. Something like 0.006" of a flanged bushing sticking above the end frame surface would be plenty of clearance to keep the rollers from chewing into the end frames. Mashing with aluminum particles is not my desire.
Think why not use flanged sealed ball bearings instead of bushings all together not shielded bearing but sealed to keep dust, dirt, grit, grain and flour out of the ball bearings. Then this woild be a lifetime mill. JMO's here.
Done ranting and venting I just had to speak up after thinking about this mill since delivery 5 days ago and yes I have sent Fred emails as well pictures of the end plates and the bushing sticking out of the stainless gap adjuster.
 
With 40 inch / lbs using a 6" long roller mill like a MM3-2.0 with 2" diameter rollers your down to 6.666 inch / lbs per inch of roller length plus a 3 roller mill not two roller so more added torque is required. I may be wrong but I find this rather weak on how I read it. I'm at 30.166 inch / lbs per inch of roller length at 89 rpm's in fear of being weak on the torque output for the rollers. With only 6.666 inch / lbs per inch of roller length I would be have to see this in operation. Use a inch / lb torque wrench and pull up to 7 inch / lbs you will have that sinking feeling like you might be underpowered in the required torque needed to mill without stalling or over amping the motor. What is the duty cycle on this motor? I hope i'm wrong but at 7 inch / lbs this seems rather weak in my book. I'm not knocking your setup just adding my thoughts.

I have yet to see a mill that a motor providing at least 40 inch-lbs of torque would not turn from a dead stop with a full hopper. My Bodine is rated at 68 inch-lbs and doesn't strain whatsoever even with a hopper full of hard wheat from a dead stop. This Bodine has a 100% duty cycle. It can run 24/7 if need be. I have an unusual one as it is a completely sealed explosion proof model. It doesn't even have a gear case breather hole. The motor housing is a one piece finned aluminum casting which acts as a heat sink. The 3/4" shaft is one hint that this baby can pull a load. I'm pretty sure it would drive any of the home scale mills on the market without even laboring. IMO, 40 inch-lbs of torque is more rotational force than you think it is. No sinking feelings here.
 
Just about ready to take the plunge on this ...
DC v AC - a bridge rectifier from RadioShak should handle that...

My concern is buying one of these on e-bay, and then the rotation would be in the wrong direction - Haven't looked closely at my Barley Crusher - is the shaft reversible if my motor turns the wrong way?

Suggestions for sources on the lovejoy couplings? - I'd need 1/2" bore to 3/8 bore...


edit: okay, if I go with a DC, I can change direction with polarity...
 
Wiring instructions are available for every Bodine on the page of the specific model number. My motor is capable of either direction by swapping wires.

My 45 in./lbs. is driving one mill shaft; the other is an idler. Full hopper standing start is no issue.

McMaster Carr/Lovejoy

Go to page 1145.

These are called 'flexible spider shaft couplings'. You want the 'solid spider' type. The group of couplings is 6408K3, then you select the proper shaft sizes (coupling bores). They are $3.90 each. Note that some have keyways, while others do not.

The solid spiders were 'size D'. Buna was 6408K74, $3.43; urethane was 2410K11, $5.32.

Click the number in bold, and look in the left pane drop-down for the correct size.
 
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