CrookedTail
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Stupid me, I never noticed that. Thanks!
Advanced extract brewing
- Thread starter BxBrewer
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Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Stupid me, I never noticed that. Thanks!
steveoc
Well-Known Member
It isn't at all obvious. I thought it would be a nice feature so I poked around and was surprised to find that it did indeed work.
Hopefully this will help others find appropriate recipes!
CrookedTail
Well-Known Member
In fairness to me, I primarily browse this site using the Android app. That filtering feature is only available on the actual website.
Anyway, back on topic....
inflictor-of-grimness
Well-Known Member
I started brewing with extract this past December. Right now I don't plan on switching to all grain any time soon because I live with my parents and there are space constraints. I also believe that there is much to improve upon with extract brewing. I've already vastly improved my beer in these past 8 months. I started out with a couple decent beers and a couple of duds, but my last few batches have been excellent. I may start doing partial mashes soon, but that has less to do with me wanting to improve my beers than it does with me wanting to open up new possibilities in how I design my recipes.
I should also point out that while many people seem to think that switching to all grain is when you become a serious brewer, I think it's when you start to design your own recipes. Making beer was fun at the beginning when I was doing kits, but now that I've made a few of my own recipes and started tweaking other recipes, I know I've found myself a lifetime hobby.
Anyway, I guess I should mention a few things that I think has vastly improved my extract beers.
Be serious when steeping your grains. Pay attention to temperature and make sure you get all the goodness you can out of those specialty grains.
Be vigilant while boiling. Make sure you stir in all the extract so you don't burn it, and make sure you don't have a boil over while you're waiting for the long boil to finish.
Add corn sugar if you want a dryer beer, and maltodextrin if you want a fuller bodied beer.
Also, if you're using anything but a light colored extract, don't overdo the caramel malts. Darker extracts usually already contain a lot of caramel malt.
Finally, pay attention to your beer while it's fermenting. The fermentation is just as important or more important than your brewing process. Your extract beer with a good fermentation temperature and proper yeast care will taste better than any all grain beer with poor yeast care.
I should also point out that while many people seem to think that switching to all grain is when you become a serious brewer, I think it's when you start to design your own recipes. Making beer was fun at the beginning when I was doing kits, but now that I've made a few of my own recipes and started tweaking other recipes, I know I've found myself a lifetime hobby.
Anyway, I guess I should mention a few things that I think has vastly improved my extract beers.
Be serious when steeping your grains. Pay attention to temperature and make sure you get all the goodness you can out of those specialty grains.
Be vigilant while boiling. Make sure you stir in all the extract so you don't burn it, and make sure you don't have a boil over while you're waiting for the long boil to finish.
Add corn sugar if you want a dryer beer, and maltodextrin if you want a fuller bodied beer.
Also, if you're using anything but a light colored extract, don't overdo the caramel malts. Darker extracts usually already contain a lot of caramel malt.
Finally, pay attention to your beer while it's fermenting. The fermentation is just as important or more important than your brewing process. Your extract beer with a good fermentation temperature and proper yeast care will taste better than any all grain beer with poor yeast care.
Been prepping for a brew day tomarrow morning. Have a pumpkin ale that I need to get started.
Autum amber ale keged
American ale 2.0 keged
Cherry blonde "almost done in the primary"
Pumpkin ale ready to go tomarrow.
Have ingredients for a English pale ale.
So much brew,so little space.
Autum amber ale keged
American ale 2.0 keged
Cherry blonde "almost done in the primary"
Pumpkin ale ready to go tomarrow.
Have ingredients for a English pale ale.
So much brew,so little space.
CrookedTail
Well-Known Member
Yep, I'm brewing this year's first batch of pumpkin ale this weekend as well. It's my own recipe, and it has gotten raves by those who've tried it, or brewed the recipe themselves. I may be biased, but I think it blows away any commercial version that I've tried.
I highly recommend it to anyone who is looking for a good extract pumpkin ale recipe.
I've never cared for ANY commercial pumpkin ale to date....and chalked it up to it's a beer my taste just doesn't like...(I think mainly b/c of overly spiced taste?) I would LOVE to be proven wrong though!! PM me the recipe if you want and I would definitely try it out!
That hop strainer looks interesting. where'd you get it? what are your impressions so far? Something like that looks to be a time saver in regard to hop sacks. I've brewed a couple of midwests' PM kits,& they came out great. Can't speak so much for the AE or E/SG kits.
But I've never had any trouble with their LME's. Regardless of brewing style,all or most of the LME goes in at flame out anyway. I've never had one finish high where it was the extracts fault. It's usually the brewer's process that's to blame. Like under/over pitching,pitching the rehydrated yeast more than 10 degrees higher than wort temp & the like.
But I've never had any trouble with their LME's. Regardless of brewing style,all or most of the LME goes in at flame out anyway. I've never had one finish high where it was the extracts fault. It's usually the brewer's process that's to blame. Like under/over pitching,pitching the rehydrated yeast more than 10 degrees higher than wort temp & the like.
CrookedTail
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flatlanderHQ
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BxBrewer said:Quiz time ! lol. When doing a partial boil 3.5 gal and it boils down to 3 gal. What is the OG of the wort before diluting it with top off water or melted ice ? Lets say the recipe is for a 5 gal batch at 1.050.
Senario, your batch is supposed to be 1.050. After topping off with water and chilling your at 1.040. Out of that at best say your at least 70% fermentable ?
What are you going to get ? How are you going to fix it ?
Let the games begin
You can avoid this scenario by estimating the gravity of your wort post top up. Because you know you will be diluting your boil you need to adjust your boil gravity upwards to compensate. For example, your target gravity is 1.060. You are doing a 3 gal boil. You will top up to 5.5 gal.
Equation: 60 GU x 4 = 240
240/ 5 33 GU or 1.033
So, we know we need 27 GU to meet our target of 1.060. Now you need to decide what ferment able to add to make up the difference.
LME or DME or simple sugars (honey, dextrose, maple sugar etc)? With simple sugars you want to limit your additions to a maximum of 20% of fermentables.
Equation: say we add LME. A
flatlanderHQ
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flatlanderHQ said:
Here is the thread that started it. The guy "Chad" who makes them is now a vendor on here. I cant say enough about how much i like mine.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/new-way-control-pellet-hop-gunk-352293/
When doing partial mashes. You still have some control over how much fermentable sugars you get. Extract brewing your left with what fermentable are in the extract. I cant tell you how many extract brewers never bother to check the OG much less during boiling. And even then what OG "sugars we see may not all be fermentable.
flatlanderHQ
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Essentially, one follows Chapter 6 "hitting target gravity" of Ray Daniels' book Designing Great Beers. He lucidly explains how to precisely calculate how much extract to use to make up for the loss of gravity caused by topping up. It's a long explanation that is better read in the original than summarized here.
BxBrewer said:
What I mean is one big advantage of brewing with extract is the ability to produce say, a 5 gallon batch with just a 5 gallon pot and 3.5 gallon boil. The 3 gallons of concentrated wort produced are quicker to cool, (especially with chilled top off water) easier to work with, and require less and less expensive equipment than an equivalent all grain batch. One poster mentioned doing a full volume boil for an extract batch, which I pointed out takes many of the above advantages away...
Im definitely going to look into his book. The reason i wrote that post was to see how many knew the answer. Or at most respond. There are a great deal of extract brewers who don't bother with checking there OG. They will check there FG and post asking why there final product is so low, or not matching what the recipe stated.
Its all part of bringing extract brewers to the table and giving them some tips,tricks and insight to make better beer. The knowledge I'm giving is just from first hand experience and research. If this thread has helped just one person then its mission accomplished .
I find that my chill time is almost the same. I can get my 5 gal of wort down to pitching temp 70 degrees in 20 minutes or less.
Im getting better hop attenuation with a full boil over partial. I find it more easy to get a true OG reading during the full boil as well.
Im not saying equipment makes you more of a advanced brewer. Everything in this thread can be used by all.
Backwoodsbrewing
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BxBrewer said:
Your heat source looks like a hot water heater element been looking for a good way to brew indoors how does it perform
It works wonderful ! I wanted to get out of the kitchen. Its a SS 120v 2000 LWD element. I plug it into a GFI outlet box with a on/off switch. I get a rolling boil no problem.
NearbyStars
New Member
Great thread. Just finished fermenting my first extract beer and will rack it to bottles tomorrow. Let's hope it turns out good
I'm doing 1-gal batches, so I'm interested in techniques for that (they don't seem any different than the larger batches so far). For best hop utilization, has anyone found a particular ratio of adding the LME to the boil (start, late)? 50% at start, 50% for the last 15 min, etc, is what I mean.
I'm doing 1-gal batches, so I'm interested in techniques for that (they don't seem any different than the larger batches so far). For best hop utilization, has anyone found a particular ratio of adding the LME to the boil (start, late)? 50% at start, 50% for the last 15 min, etc, is what I mean.
RIC0
Well-Known Member
I've yet to do all grain. Got too much gonig on as it is so spending 5-7 hours really isn't an option when I can brew 2 batches at different times in that 5-7 hour period.
I'm an extract and or partial mash guy and either buy kits from ritebrew.com or find recipes on this forum and go to a local shop.
All BS aside I make dam good beer and will continue to brew non AG batches for the time being. Will I go to AG or try it, dam skippy just don't know when. Got to get to kegging first then will look at AG.
I'm an extract and or partial mash guy and either buy kits from ritebrew.com or find recipes on this forum and go to a local shop.
All BS aside I make dam good beer and will continue to brew non AG batches for the time being. Will I go to AG or try it, dam skippy just don't know when. Got to get to kegging first then will look at AG.
NearbyStars said:Great thread. Just finished fermenting my first extract beer and will rack it to bottles tomorrow. Let's hope it turns out good
I'm doing 1-gal batches, so I'm interested in techniques for that (they don't seem any different than the larger batches so far). For best hop utilization, has anyone found a particular ratio of adding the LME to the boil (start, late)? 50% at start, 50% for the last 15 min, etc, is what I mean.
I think people generally say 1lb of extract per gallon of water works well to ensure good hop utilisation and what not... So really it comes down to your boil size. I do full boils though, so someone else might correct me on that.
CrookedTail
Well-Known Member
You're correct. With my recipes I add enough extract to get me somewhere in the 1.040 range, then add the rest at flameout.
I try to boil 4.5 to 4 gallons of wort at that gravity. With an hour-long boil, I'd say .75 to 1 gallon boils off. So I'm topping it off in the fermenter with about a gallon, to a gallon and a half of water.
This has been working well for me.
flatlanderHQ
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BxBrewer said:
Well said. I'm fairly new to brewing and have learned an immense amount from HBT and threads like this. But as valuable as collective knowledge can be, there are times when going to published experts saves time, effort and unnecessary mistakes. Cheers!
Tippsy-Turvy
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Hey BxBrewer, great thread thank you!
What are your thoughts/experience on squeezing the specialty grains after their steeping? I've read good and bad things and for my most recent batch, I squeezed the crap out of it.
Then, when I steep my specialty grains I hold the end of the bag and constantly drag the bag around the 155F water for the 30mins. Isn't this effectively forcing water through the grains and therefore same as sparging?
What are your thoughts/experience on squeezing the specialty grains after their steeping? I've read good and bad things and for my most recent batch, I squeezed the crap out of it.
Then, when I steep my specialty grains I hold the end of the bag and constantly drag the bag around the 155F water for the 30mins. Isn't this effectively forcing water through the grains and therefore same as sparging?
Thank you ! But i would like to think we all can take credit. What i do is steep my double crushed at 170 for 30 minutes. By the time you take the cover off,turn the heat off and add the grains you should be around 160ish. At about 15 min to go i will heat up some sparge water to 170 in a separate pot.. When the grains are done steeping i put the bag on a large strainer to let drain for a minute or so. then i use the 170 sparge water to rinse them. Ill slowly pour the sparge water over them till it runs clear. Ill use a pot lid to press a little while ther in the strainer. but not to much.
Its not a dye in the wool thing one must do. But since i use specialty grains for my color and flavor i want the most i can get out of them.
Think of sparging as a fancy name to rinse or wash the grains.
UnderThePorchBrewing
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Great Thread!
Very good post as is the OP's.
I've been brewing for 5 and a half years. started all extract then shifted and did a few partial/mini mashes then went to all grain. After 5 years I now do all three depending on the beer, the time I have, and how simple or complicated I want the day to be.
most of my recipes right now are done as mini/partial mash because I can take any recipe and convert it to using mostly LME or DME or both (weight determined by the package I am using 3lb DME 3.3lb LME etc) then adjust the base grains for the difference. (I have also done recipes where most of the base were grain and added as little as a lb of DME to get to the gravity I want) this way i do not end up with .25 lb of dme sitting around or a half container of LME. works well for me. (We do what works well for each of us which is why this is such a great hobby). I learned a lot from AG and still have some recipes that I love and do, as well as some recipes that are all extract.
This is a great thread because a lot of what we apply to AG can be applied to Extract and can make a far superior extract beer. Advanced Extract brewing is just that,applying good practices and knowledge to what we do with proven improvements to make a beer we like. steeping at 170 works. holding steeping grains at 154 with a lb or two of base grains then sparging adds a little time but not as much as a full all grain day. I use a 2 gallon igloo drink cooler not modified with a nylon paint strainer bag in it usually heating my water to 172 then adding to the grain where the the volume of the grain and mass of the tun lowers me to roughly 154 I then put the top on and lift the spout and insert my long stem thermometer down the spout into the mini mash. once done 45 to 60 min I lift out the bag let it drain then dump the wort into my boil kettle which has been heating I rinse/sparge the grain then proceed with the boil. Usuall a full boil.
cooling the wort rapidly is also key
I also use a temperature controlled fermentation chamber, makes a huge difference in quality.
sorry for the long post
Ben
Very good post as is the OP's.
I've been brewing for 5 and a half years. started all extract then shifted and did a few partial/mini mashes then went to all grain. After 5 years I now do all three depending on the beer, the time I have, and how simple or complicated I want the day to be.
most of my recipes right now are done as mini/partial mash because I can take any recipe and convert it to using mostly LME or DME or both (weight determined by the package I am using 3lb DME 3.3lb LME etc) then adjust the base grains for the difference. (I have also done recipes where most of the base were grain and added as little as a lb of DME to get to the gravity I want) this way i do not end up with .25 lb of dme sitting around or a half container of LME. works well for me. (We do what works well for each of us which is why this is such a great hobby). I learned a lot from AG and still have some recipes that I love and do, as well as some recipes that are all extract.
This is a great thread because a lot of what we apply to AG can be applied to Extract and can make a far superior extract beer. Advanced Extract brewing is just that,applying good practices and knowledge to what we do with proven improvements to make a beer we like. steeping at 170 works. holding steeping grains at 154 with a lb or two of base grains then sparging adds a little time but not as much as a full all grain day. I use a 2 gallon igloo drink cooler not modified with a nylon paint strainer bag in it usually heating my water to 172 then adding to the grain where the the volume of the grain and mass of the tun lowers me to roughly 154 I then put the top on and lift the spout and insert my long stem thermometer down the spout into the mini mash. once done 45 to 60 min I lift out the bag let it drain then dump the wort into my boil kettle which has been heating I rinse/sparge the grain then proceed with the boil. Usuall a full boil.
cooling the wort rapidly is also key
I also use a temperature controlled fermentation chamber, makes a huge difference in quality.
sorry for the long post
Ben
sheldonsteen
Member
Tippsy-Turvy said:
What good things have you read about squeezing the grains? I've only seen/heard negative, but I'd be curious to hear otherwise. Have you tasted your most recent brew yet? I'd love to know you're results from having squeezed it so much. Great thread, y'all!
I typically do partial mash and love the result. I've entered competitions and faired really well but all that says is that I fit we'll in a style of beer. The real test is your mouth. I love the beer that I make and I can't find a beer that I like more in any store. The real enjoyment I find in this hobby is developing my own recipe that I like, refining my skills, growing and learning with every batch, and creating the best thing that ever touched my lips. I totally agree that extract/partial mash is or can be as good or better than AG. It reminds me of Jessie James in the biker build offs. He is so inspired to make everything from scratch that that he can't see that using some factory made products can yield an excellent result. If you find enjoyment in going as far as growing your own grains that is fine, but I am more interested in developing a equivalent product with the ingredients available to me and spending more time enjoying the end result. In closing to each their own, one not better than the rest. And thank you for starting this thread it is the best one I've read in a while.
Tippsy-Turvy
Well-Known Member
I'll open one to taste next week. In response however I won't even attempt to plagiarize Revvy. Here's what the man himself has to say:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/biab-vs-steeping-grains-300657/#post3736845
Edit: I just realised I may be digressing from someone else's main thread - sorry Bxbrewer!
steveoc
Well-Known Member
I have the Williams Big Oxygen system. I decided to go with the big tanks rather than the system using the disposable tanks. While the initial outlay is greater, oxygen is much much cheaper in bulk. I bought it before they offered it without the tank. Now they have it without the tank which is the route I'd take. Most places do not fill oxygen tanks, rather they exchange them. You might want to check how much your local welding shop charges for that first tank. After that it is about $25 a fill around herethe cost of 2.5 little cylinders. I wasn't real happy about exchanging a brand new tank for a used one.
I think the oxygen is a big positive for reused yeast or liquid yeasts. It seems less important for dry yeast. In any case, I've come to the practice of trying to provide optimal environment for my yeast. I also routinely add yeast nutrients at the beginning as well.
When I steep grains it ends up being a 3 pot process. There are a couple reasons for why I do it this way. First, I don't have to worry about picking up a grain bag every time I brew. One less thing to forget. Second, and probably more important, I always felt I was leaving flavor behind when I used grain bags. I would put the grain bag off to the side and watch dark colored water seep out even after dipping in the boil pot and squeezing.
1 Boil kettle - Preferably large enough to do a full boil
1 Small pot with lid - Large enough to hold the steeping grains and 1.5 - 2 quarts of water per pound of grains.
1 pot - large enough to boil one gallon of water
1 Stainless Steel Strainer - ideally it will be large enough to reach both ends of the boil kettle sou you don't have to hold it.
1. I start with the boil kettle. I fill it with 4 1/2is gallons and start it heating. Depending on steep volume. I start with this because it typically takes longer to bring this volume of water to a boil than to steep the grains.
2. I move on to a small pot I use for steeping. I usually pour about half a gallon here. Better wold be to use 1.5-2 quarts of water per pound of grains. Similar to mash concentration.
3. The last pot is anything that can hold the other gallon of water. I heat a gallon of water to boiling then turn off the burner.
4. When the water in the small pot reaches about 165°F I pull it off the burner and stir in the steeping grains. I cover it and set it off to the side and let sit for however long the steep calls for.
5. When the grains are done steeping, pour that pot through the SS strainer into the boil kettle.
6. Pour the previously boiled water through the steeped grains into the boil kettle.
1 Boil kettle - Preferably large enough to do a full boil
1 Small pot with lid - Large enough to hold the steeping grains and 1.5 - 2 quarts of water per pound of grains.
1 pot - large enough to boil one gallon of water
1 Stainless Steel Strainer - ideally it will be large enough to reach both ends of the boil kettle sou you don't have to hold it.
1. I start with the boil kettle. I fill it with 4 1/2is gallons and start it heating. Depending on steep volume. I start with this because it typically takes longer to bring this volume of water to a boil than to steep the grains.
2. I move on to a small pot I use for steeping. I usually pour about half a gallon here. Better wold be to use 1.5-2 quarts of water per pound of grains. Similar to mash concentration.
3. The last pot is anything that can hold the other gallon of water. I heat a gallon of water to boiling then turn off the burner.
4. When the water in the small pot reaches about 165°F I pull it off the burner and stir in the steeping grains. I cover it and set it off to the side and let sit for however long the steep calls for.
5. When the grains are done steeping, pour that pot through the SS strainer into the boil kettle.
6. Pour the previously boiled water through the steeped grains into the boil kettle.
Interested to hear, I want to stray as far from the generic instructions that come with my mini/ partial mash kits as possible. The instructions always say to sparge with 1qt water/2lb grain which usually ends up being about 3qts water...This seems like an insufficient amount to truly "rinse" all that grain well. Is there really a set amount of water? Do you all use more?
If I mash 5-6lbs of grain in 2 gallons of water,I sparge with 1.5 gallons to get 3.5 gallons boil volume in my 5 gallon kettle. I could actually get more sugars out of the grains,judging from hone spent grain baked goods still stick to an oiled sheet.
Thanks_Yeasties
Well-Known Member
Great thread!
I would like to add that I have been doing some reading on another thread that has some great info on doing late extract additions to get a lighter beer, reduce your chances of burning your extract, the effects of shorter boils on hops utilization or how isomerized the oils become with boil time.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/brewing-extract-without-nuking-extract-417623/
I only have a few batches under my belt but I found a ton of useful info in that thread as well as this one!
I have done a little searching and have a question regarding the "cooked extract" taste. It seems logically it would taste like cooked or caramelized sugar, any thoughts?
I would like to add that I have been doing some reading on another thread that has some great info on doing late extract additions to get a lighter beer, reduce your chances of burning your extract, the effects of shorter boils on hops utilization or how isomerized the oils become with boil time.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/brewing-extract-without-nuking-extract-417623/
I only have a few batches under my belt but I found a ton of useful info in that thread as well as this one!
I have done a little searching and have a question regarding the "cooked extract" taste. It seems logically it would taste like cooked or caramelized sugar, any thoughts?
Yup, that makes perfect sense to me from a common sense standpoint. If instructions say "Use 2 gal's to steep, then sparge with 1qt water/2lbs grain @170 deg's, then add 1 gal water to pot and bring to boil"....this is no different than how you are doing it re: final 3.5gal boil vol PLUS I would imagine you rinse/sparge the grains MUCH more thoroughly with an extra gallon going through them! I will definitely be utilizing that approach (along with squeezing the grains) in my next batch. This thread gets better and better! Props the OP!
Ballsy, if you sprage "rinse your spec grains". there shouldn't be a need to squeeze them. A little pressure is fine but not too hard. You don't want to squeeze and get tannins/astringent in there.
The difference is that I'm mashing,not steeping. And rather than add plain water,I sparge with that other 1.5 gallons to get up to boil volume with pure wort rather than water. And that 2 gallons of water is the right amount quart-wise for 5-6 pounds of grains,including base grains. But it could apply to steeping just as long as you understand the process & my intentions along those lines.
