Moving from extract to all grain - Schwarzbier

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InsertCoins25

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I'm looking for some advice. I've done about 7 5-gallon batches of extract brews so far. All have turned out pretty good but I'm never "wow'd" by them. I'm ready to try and produce something with more flavor. Something that I can really say is better than what I can buy in the store.

I would really like to get good at making Schwarbier. I would jump for joy if I could come close to replicating something like Kostritzer. I live in Kansas City so the Missouri River water supply from what I've read is generally very good for Pale's and Wheat's hence why we have Boulevard here I guess.

How much of a factor is water in Schwarbier? Will I be disappointed with the water supply I have to work with?

I was also curious, what is the best mashing method and equipment for Schwarzbier? I know I need to get a mashing tub since I've been extract brewing up to now. I was thinking of getting something like this:

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/10-gallon-all-grain-commercial-quality-kettle-kit.html

I am open to other suggestions though. As probably most everyone else here... I'm after quality.
 
I am at this point as well. I only have equipment for extract so far, but if I need to I can borrow my uncles turkey fryer. That kit OP is looking at seems expensive, can I do that my self for cheaper??
 
BeerMe82 said:
I am at this point as well. I only have equipment for extract so far, but if I need to I can borrow my uncles turkey fryer. That kit OP is looking at seems expensive, can I do that my self for cheaper??
Click to expand...

Yes, you can put together the equipment for much cheaper. Get a 40 qt (for 5 gallon) cooler on sale at Walmart or wherever, add a MLT conversion, and build a basic manifold and you have a cheap MLT. Then, get a 40-60qt aluminum kettle and install a weldless ball valve kit for your BK and another for your HLT. You can get your fittings from someplace like BargainFittings.com for a good price. It isn't cheap, but cheaper than buying pre-built equipment.
 
I'll be purchasing add'l kit to go AG in Aug. That setup you linked looks hella expensive!

Here's what I'm doing:
70 qt converted cooler MLT
15 gal SS kettle, locally welded 1/2" port with ball valve
two clear food grade buckets
blichmann burner with 24" legs
Wiliams Brewing O2 aeration kit

With some online research all this will cost approx $450 - $500
 
Jubilee said:
I'll be purchasing add'l kit to go AG in Aug. That setup you linked looks hella expensive!

Here's what I'm doing:
70 qt converted cooler MLT
15 gal SS kettle, locally welded 1/2" port with ball valve
two clear food grade buckets
blichmann burner with 24" legs
Wiliams Brewing O2 aeration kit

With some online research all this will cost approx $450 - $500
Click to expand...

Yeah $400 for two 10 gallon kettles with ball valves, a false bottom, and tubing is pretty high. Of course they have to make their money...but for the DIY'er there's lots of money to be saved when going AG.
 
Schwarzbier is a lager so you would need a method to control your fermentation temperature and then lager the beer.

This would also be fairly easy to do as a partial mash in a 4-5 gallon brew pot using a brew bag (BIAB). If you have a 4-5 gallon pot, all you need is a nylon bag.

Mock Schwarzbier
OG: 1.049
FG: 1.010
SRM: 26
IBU: 24

3 lb Munich Malt
8 oz Carmel 40L
8 oz Carafa II
4 oz Pale Chocolate

Single Infusion Mash with 6 qts of water at 152-154 deg for 60 minutes. Sparge with another 6-8 qts of 175 deg water.

Boil and add
3 lb Pilsner Dry Malt Extract

.75 oz Perle at 60 min
.5 oz Hallertau at 20 min
.5 oz Hallertau at 5 min

Ale Yeast: White Labs German Kolsch WLP-029 and ferment at 62-65 def F (this yeast would allow you to get lager characteristic at ale temperatures).

Lager Yeast: WLP-833?
 
I'm planning a 1 gal BIAB Scwarzbier next week using this recipe.

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1 lbs 6.4 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 73.5 %
2.1 oz Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.8 %
2.0 oz Carafa I (337.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.6 %
2.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.6 %
2.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 5 6.6 %
0.20 oz Pearle [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 29.9 IBUs
0.20 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Aroma Steep 10.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Malto-Dextrine (Boil 5.0 mins) Other 7 -
1.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) [25.00 ml] Yeast 9 -

Thinking of changing the yeast to Danstar Munich Wheat Yeast. What do you think about the change? Oh, yea I'm doing a ale not a lager.
 
I just went All Grain (BIAB) 2 weeks ago. It is quite simple and requires so little equipment. I did around 40 Extract Kits, I was bored and found All Grain to be cheaper. I found a few different sites that helped me alot, I will post them below for you to check out. The BIAB method requires a Big Brew Pot (I purchased a Keggle for $119 from Adventures in Brewing and it works great. I made my own bag for around $27, you can purchase one for $35 on one of the sites I will post below. That's all you need considering you already have the regular Brewing/Fermenting Equipment from your kits. This technique was developed in Australia by a bunch of guy's trying to figure out a way to do All Grain without the many hundreds of dollars of equipment to go 3v. Check out these sites below and I hope it helps you get into All Grain ASAP. I wish I found this BIAB technique sooner, but better late than never and by the way, I made a Kolsch and it is in the secondary now and smells great and looks great, I can't wait to taste it, it was done with BIAB....Remember the key to BIAB - Simple, Simple, Simple.:fro:

P.S. I remember seeing a Swartzbier (Black IPA) recipe on the biabbrewer site that you might like to try if you decide to try the BIAB System.

http://biabrewer.info/
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com
http://brewinabag.weebly.com/ (Excellent Looking Bags for $35)
 
Thanks for the information everyone. I need to research this a bit more. I don't mind paying a bit more if I don't have to mess with building the equipment myself.

To ferment at a cooler temperature do most people just use a refrigerator to regulate the temperature?
 
I have a dry basement that is a fairly constant 65 deg, good for most ales. I also have a small refridgerator with a RANCO ETC-11100 temperature controller for colder fermentation. Another popular temperature controller is the Johnston Controls A419.
 
JCBrew1 said:
I just went All Grain (BIAB) 2 weeks ago. It is quite simple and requires so little equipment. I did around 40 Extract Kits, I was bored and found All Grain to be cheaper. I found a few different sites that helped me alot, I will post them below for you to check out. The BIAB method requires a Big Brew Pot (I purchased a Keggle for $119 from Adventures in Brewing and it works great. I made my own bag for around $27, you can purchase one for $35 on one of the sites I will past below. That's all you need considering you already have the regular Brewing/Fermenting Equipment from your kits. This technique was developed in Australia by a bunch of guy's trying to figure out a way to do All Grain without the many hundreds of dollars of equipment to go 3v. Check out these sites below and I hope it helps you get into All Grain ASAP. I wish I found this BIAB technique sooner, but better late than never and by the way, I made a Kolsch and it is in the secondary now and smells great and looks great, I can't wait to taste it, it was done with BIAB....Remember the key to BIAB - Simple, Simple, Simple.:fro:

P.S. I remember seeing a Swartzbier (Black IPA) recipe on the biabbrewer site that you might like to try if you decide to try the BIAB System.

http://biabrewer.info/
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com
http://brewinabag.weebly.com/ (Excellent Looking Bags for $35)
Click to expand...

This method looks awesome. I think Im gunna try it.
 
You can also check out this thread on Partial Mash BIAB. The only additional equipment you need is the bag.

All Grain BIAB usually result in a full wort boil, which means you will typically need a bigger kettle (8+ gallon), a propane burner and a wort chiller to do a 5+ gallon batch effectively.

I have done a couple side by side recipies doing Partial Mash BIAB and AG batch sparging and the beers were nearly identical. You will need to increase hops and the beer will be slightly darker in the partial mash. Just did a BIAB partial mash of a Oatmeal Stout that came out wonderfull.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/
 
:fro: If you do try the BIAB technique, I should mention that several sites showing different people doing BIAB, I noticed some of them don't even use a bag, it looks like they just bought a sheet of Voile (maybe a yard and a half or two) and just drape it into their bucket and either tie a bungee or a ratchet strap around it to keep it at the height they need it at. I bought a false bottom (PICO Style) which works great, but a bit pricey. If you do it without a false bottom I would recommend a ratchet strap of some sort so your bag does not sag under the weight of the wet grain and touch the bottom of your kettle, just in case you have to apply more heat to maintain your Mash Temp, the Voile can melt and possibly ruin your batch of beer. I also have a ball valve and a welded port to accept it on my keggle, with BIAB alot of guys that have been doing it for a while recommend just the pot and use a stainless racking cane with a high temp silicone tube to transfer the hot wort, some use a techinque called NO-Chill, take a look at this, it's another way to save time and money. Check out Youtube and search "Brew in a Bag", you will find a few video's of people doing BIAB to help you get it all figured out. Good Luck and Happy AG Brewing. :tank:
 

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