Thinking about going all-grain? DO IT!!!

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Looper

Looper

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I started brewing in May, 2011. I dove in headfirst. I got a 7.5g stainless steel pot with propane burner in order to do full-boils, made a 50ft copper immersion wort chiller, and everything else needed to make the best possible extract brews.

But, they were still extract brews.

I made 6 extract brewkits from Northern Brewer. I'm not trying to bash NB at all, I genuinely feel like they produce some very quality LME and DMEs. No matter how quality an extract is, it has still been sitting on a shelf somewhere for who knows how long...

I made the switch to all-grain about 6 weeks ago, and WOW! What a difference. I constructed a MLT out of a round 5 gal cooler from Lowe's for about $60 (including the copper manifold).

I made Biermuncher's OktoberfAst ale, and finally tried it tonight. Absolutely phenomenal. :ban:

There is no extract twang or weird aftertastes WHATSOEVER.

Since switching to AG, I've made a Pumpkin Spiced Ale, and an Oatmeal Stout. Can't wait to keep producing FAR superior brews! I'm trying to get all my friends to drink my extract brews that I have in bottles just to free up space for the AGs...

I wish I could go back in time and switch to AG sooner! By far the best improvement I've made in my brewing process..

So, for all you extract brewers out there, MAKE THE JUMP! As long as you have the process down with extracts, there is absolutely no reason not to go AG..

:rockin:
 
Agreed. IMO its what really got me hooked on beer making. Doing extract is fine, and since the market for it keeps us AG'ers alive i wont knock it, but there is no depth to it. No pinpointing certain tastes or body characteristics. AG all the way baby!
 
Applaud your enthusiasm, and in general I agree and prefer AG for several of the reasons you stated. However, I think the biggest variable to control when making great beer is yeast pitching rate and control of fermentation temps.

You can get all the AG steps down, then pitch too little yeast hot and end up with mediocre to terrible beer. I'd take the extract brew with excellent yeast/fermentation management any day over the former.
 
Im doing my first all AG batch this weekend, but im glad I did the extract batches I did. It help me get a better feel on the whole process and work on stuff like yeast pitching rates and fermentation temps, without some of the complexity that all grain adds. It was a great learning step, one I think everyone should take.

I probably shouldnt be doing a lager for my first all-grain, its going to be hard to wait for it to be ready. I might have to do an ale right after this.
 
Just want to chime in that it's probably MUCH easier to brew AG than many people think. if you are on the fence, do it. you can try it with a simple BIAB beer with the same equipment you are using for extract, but with a 5 gallon paint strainer bag added.
 
How many extracts did you do first? What kind of burner are you using? Cost savings alone is enough to make me consider making the switch.
 
Homercidal said:
Just want to chime in that it's probably MUCH easier to brew AG than many people think. if you are on the fence, do it. you can try it with a simple BIAB beer with the same equipment you are using for extract, but with a 5 gallon paint strainer bag added.
Click to expand...

+1 on BIAB. It brews great beer, has a low equipment and cleanup quotia, and is an easy to follow process.

I might suggest a few partial mashes first before totally AG. It is a noticeable increase in quality and helps you dial in your mash processes before you completely depend on the mash for all your fermentables.

It allows you to use your existing equipment. With simple brewing software you can start with smaller partials of 2.5 to 3 lbs grain and work all the way up to a full mash.

Doing a lot of partial mashes gave me the confidence to move to all grain without hesitation. Once I did a 7 pound 90 minute mash, kept my mash temperature steady, and achieved conversion, I knew I was ready to do full mashes.

There's nothing wrong with moving straight from extract to all grain. I thought I'd offer a useful intermediate step that for some, including me, made the transition to all grain easy, effective and natural.
 
I brewed extract then recently switched to AG. I went batch sparge with 10g Rubbermaid cooler. Love it. I think AG is a bit more fun, but, really I switched because I wanted to start from grains rather than extract. I feel more like a brewer now.

PS. In no way do I mean to denigrate extract brewers. I still have a world of respect for you.
 
I did the same, but started in August and went to AG in September. I win.:p

AG is 100x better - plus your friends think you're way cooler when you're mashing grains rather than pouring goo in to a pot.
 
kehaar said:
I brewed extract then recently switched to AG. I went batch sparge with 10g Rubbermaid cooler. Love it. I think AG is a bit more fun, but, really I switched because I wanted to start from grains rather than extract. I feel more like a brewer now.

PS. In no way do I mean to denigrate extract brewers. I still have a world of respect for you.
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Same here. Extract brewing was fine, but when I switched to AG brews it was much better. I am also not denigrating extract brewers, but my AG brews taste much better than my extract (kit) brews, and I have more fun doing them. I did do a couple of BIAB batches though, and then switched to a Rubbermaid mash tun for mashing and if you have the space, having a mash tun is far superior. More fun, in my opinion, and a cleaner process.
 
doing my first all grain this weekend.. Can't wait! I think I'll enjoy it more for the little added challenge! Hope I enjoy the process. I'm starting with a kit from the local brewstore... A Munich Helles. (1.053sg 4.4srm 23IBU's).. Something light and easy that hopefully the wife will enjoy! (if momma is happy... Everyone is happy) ... Oh yeah and I have 100lbs of grain on the way :D

so other then the mashing the rest should pretty much be the same as extract right?
 
Got a 10 gallon cooler with a valve on her. Just need a manifold and ill be AG for the first time this weekend! brewin a belgian blonde and a local clone (Louis Demise) cant wait!
 
crazyseany said:
doing my first all grain this weekend.. Can't wait! I think I'll enjoy it more for the little added challenge! Hope I enjoy the process. I'm starting with a kit from the local brewstore... A Munich Helles. (1.053sg 4.4srm 23IBU's).. Something light and easy that hopefully the wife will enjoy! (if momma is happy... Everyone is happy) ... Oh yeah and I have 100lbs of grain on the way :D

so other then the mashing the rest should pretty much be the same as extract right?
Click to expand...

Very much so. Except you won't have to top up with water after the boil.
 
Homercidal said:
Very much so. Except you won't have to top up with water after the boil.
Click to expand...

I have some friends who top up after AG boil. If you had good extraction but over boiled then adding water can get you back to your intended gravity.

Thing about all grain... Gotta use that hydrometer, know your volumes, then do the math. Engineering at its best!
 
I went AG about 18 months ago after brewing extract on and off for 12 years. In general I am brewing better beer now IMHO. The thing I notice most is that I have MUCH more control over the finished product. With extract many of my ales tasted the same. I made some decent beer, and that was cool, but getting brews true to style was very challanging. AG allows me to be more exact in the styles. I still have A LOT to learn, but I am definitely not looking back. I am not sure why I was concerned. It's really not all that difficult, and after a few batches it will be second nature.

As noted previously though, i think the number one thing I have done to improve my beer is to control my fermentation temps. I am brewing ales at the lower end of the yeast's tolerance, and I am really liking the finished product!

Good luck with your transition. You'll be fine :) .

Alan
 
AG all the way!!!

If you don't want to get a pen and paper to do the math... get beersmith or similar. Best thing you can do to start to learn how to set up an AG batch correctly, consistently. Then you will start to understand how to set up your own recipes.
 
Extract kits are good to do if you don't want to spend a lot of time mashing / gathering the various ingredients and all the calculations.

All grains are good to do if you want to cut down on costs as much as possible and really want to tweak your beers.

I like a good lazy extract brew day but the prices are really starting to hurt.
 
kehaar said:
I have some friends who top up after AG boil. If you had good extraction but over boiled then adding water can get you back to your intended gravity.

Thing about all grain... Gotta use that hydrometer, know your volumes, then do the math. Engineering at its best!
Click to expand...

True. Better statement would have been, won't necessarily have to top up with water! :mug:
 
Cromwell said:
I did do a couple of BIAB batches though, and then switched to a Rubbermaid mash tun for mashing and if you have the space, having a mash tun is far superior. More fun, in my opinion, and a cleaner process.
Click to expand...

How do you figure that having a mash tun is far superior?
Is it a better filter?
Does it let more flavor come through?
Can you extract more sugar?
 
warex said:
How do you figure that having a mash tun is far superior?
Is it a better filter?
Does it let more flavor come through?
Can you extract more sugar?
Click to expand...

Probably the main advantages of normal mash tun mashing over BIAB are better efficiency, easier to stir / break up dough balls, and 10g batches. I've never BIAB, but these things seem obvious. I'm sure I'll be corrected though. :eek:

I wouldn't have said far superior, but I'm not qualified to made a qualitative statement.
 
passedpawn said:
Probably the main advantages of normal mash tun mashing over BIAB are better efficiency, easier to stir / break up dough balls, and 10g batches. I've never BIAB, but these things seem obvious. I'm sure I'll be correct though. :eek:

I wouldn't have said far superior, but I'm not qualified to made a qualitative statement.
Click to expand...

There was a thread on this earlier this week. Basically, a lot of people say that in general you'll get worse efficiency in BIAB. However, some people claim they get better efficiency in BIAB. If you have a big enough pot, stirring/batch size aren't a problem either (take a look at Steeljan and Bmeyer44 on YouTube, and the BIAB link in my sig... the Aussies have some really cool BIAB setups).

My experience with BIAB vs a mash tun was that if you have a bag that doesn't fully line your pot, you will get less efficiency. Otherwise, you'll be fine. I bought a 5 gallon paint strainer from Home Depot that lined my pot perfectly, and the same size from Lowes that didn't. The bags from Lowes caused lowered efficiency for me. Even though the bag from Lowes was 5 gallons, it was too narrow in shape.

The mash tun gave me several advantages:
1. I brew all in doors, and BIAB is messy as hell. The mash tun solved all of my grains all over the stove issue.
2. The temperature of the mash stays constant in a cooler mash tun much more easily then a pot.
3. Less stress on brew day because of 1 and 2 made the mash tun a worthwhile investment for me.

As far as extracts go, a BJCP judge called into CraigTube's JustinTV cast a couple of weeks ago and claimed that a winning brew at a recent competition was an extract. You can hear similar stories from people like Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer. If you know what you are doing with extract, you can make great beer.
 
I'm sure people who do BIAB well, make great beer, and it's certainly less equipment and less space.
Speaking only for me, though, the mash tun was less work. Pour in water, pour in grain, stir, cover and watch TV. It holds the temp so well, you don't have to add heat. With BIAB, when you turn on the burner, I felt like I had to stir to make sure there weren't hot spots. Stirring in a bag works ok, but not as easy as in a pot.

I personally got better efficiency as well. Maybe I did the BIAB incorrectly, but maybe it's just easier to do it right with a mash tun.

Draining the mash tun is as easy as opening the valve. With BIAB, you have to hold a 20 pound bag of grain up for a while, unless you have something to hold it for you.

Finally for me, cleaning the mash tun was a snap too. I just dumped it upside down and got 95% of the grain out, and hosed out the rest, then let some PBW run through the braid and valve. Easy Peasy.
 
dantheman13 said:
There was a thread on this earlier this week. Basically, a lot of people say that in general you'll get worse efficiency in BIAB. However, some people claim they get better efficiency in BIAB. If you have a big enough pot, stirring/batch size aren't a problem either (take a look at Steeljan and Bmeyer44 on YouTube, and the BIAB link in my sig... the Aussies have some really cool BIAB setups).

My experience with BIAB vs a mash tun was that if you have a bag that doesn't fully line your pot, you will get less efficiency. Otherwise, you'll be fine. I bought a 5 gallon paint strainer from Home Depot that lined my pot perfectly, and the same size from Lowes that didn't. The bags from Lowes caused lowered efficiency for me. Even though the bag from Lowes was 5 gallons, it was too narrow in shape.

The mash tun gave me several advantages:
1. I brew all in doors, and BIAB is messy as hell. The mash tun solved all of my grains all over the stove issue.
2. The temperature of the mash stays constant in a cooler mash tun much more easily then a pot.
3. Less stress on brew day because of 1 and 2 made the mash tun a worthwhile investment for me.

As far as extracts go, a BJCP judge called into CraigTube's JustinTV cast a couple of weeks ago and claimed that a winning brew at a recent competition was an extract. You can hear similar stories from people like Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer. If you know what you are doing with extract, you can make great beer.
Click to expand...


BIAB gets lower efficiency because you are not able to thoroughly sparge the grains, if you can sparge as well as you could in a mash tun you would get the same efficiency. BIAB is essentially no sparge brewing.
 
eastoak said:
BIAB gets lower efficiency because you are not able to thoroughly sparge the grains, if you can sparge as well as you could in a mash tun you would get the same efficiency. BIAB is essentially no sparge brewing.
Click to expand...

There are widely used sparging methods for BIAB as well. It basically involves pulling the bag from the main mashing kettle, and dunking the grains in fresh, warmer water. Check out the Maxi-BIAB method on the Aussie forum. It may not be as efficient though, as you say (especially compared to fly sparging).

Regardless, people regularly report 75-80% efficiency. What may be difficult though is maintaining a constant efficiency. For example, one method that increases efficiency with BIAB is to squeeze the bag thoroughly. This is often done by hand, which can be a huge variable between brew sessions. However, the efficiency gain is rather large when this method is used. One BIAB brewer reported his efficiency going from 77% pre-squeezed to 85% post-squeezed (reference here). When you think about it, a mash tun can't really compete with the efficiency that method produces. Those of us who use a mash tun don't usually extract the water that is soaked into the grains. I've seen efficiency reports of 88% using the BIAB method.
 
Srceenplay said:
So to someone new the difference between AG and BIAB is an igloo cooler??
Click to expand...

Sort of, yes. BIAB is All Grain. It's just a method of doing All Grain without an igloo cooler that has a manifold or filter (aka mash tun). There is some more process involved with the BIAB. The igloo cooler mash tun takes away a lot of the variables, but plenty of AG brewers love BIAB.
 
Good! Another all grain convert! You'll have way more fun with all grain brewing, and satisfaction knowing that you created the beer. I made the jump in 1982. When there were limited grain types, hops and yeast available. No websites and only a couple of books available. Now, the sky's the limit. Sooner or later you'll improve your system. Moving from plastic tuns and glass carboys to stainless steel tuns, fermenters and boilers. From immersion chillers, to plates and pumps. As time goes on, you may go from simple infusions, to step or even decoction mashing. You'll learn the importance of water chemistry when brewing different beer styles. So many good things will come!
 
dantheman13 said:
There are widely used sparging methods for BIAB as well. It basically involves pulling the bag from the main mashing kettle, and dunking the grains in fresh, warmer water. Check out the Maxi-BIAB method on the Aussie forum. It may not be as efficient though, as you say (especially compared to fly sparging).

Regardless, people regularly report 75-80% efficiency. What may be difficult though is maintaining a constant efficiency. For example, one method that increases efficiency with BIAB is to squeeze the bag thoroughly. This is often done by hand, which can be a huge variable between brew sessions. However, the efficiency gain is rather large when this method is used. One BIAB brewer reported his efficiency going from 77% pre-squeezed to 85% post-squeezed (reference here). When you think about it, a mash tun can't really compete with the efficiency that method produces. Those of us who use a mash tun don't usually extract the water that is soaked into the grains. I've seen efficiency reports of 88% using the BIAB method.
Click to expand...

i agree. when i decided to go all grain, after 2 extract batches, i started with BIAB before deciding to get a 3 kettle system. now that i'm doing no sparge brewing it's kind of like BIAB without the bag.
 
I just picked up 2 batches worth of ingredients from my LHBS..

The only problem that I wish I had done differently, is to use a 10gal MLT instead of the 5gal MLT. I didn't do enough research beforehand apparently, but the very highest gravity beer for a 5gal batch with a 5gal MLT is ~1070.. GO with the 10gal round coolers!!!
 
I think I'm definitely an AG homebrewer now. After a bit more investment in building a mash tun, and buying a burner and bigger kettle, it's much cheaper to buy ingredients and the best part is that I get the enjoyment of recipe tweaking, mash times, water chemistry, etc. I'm a geek. I like to tweak stuff. It's all part of the enjoyment I get out of brewing. It's also kicked my ass hard a few times, including a rather poor attempt at brewing a wit beer over the summer. Live and learn - and keep improving on the process. WOOT!
 
i went from a partial extract (about three brews, my SWMBO introduced me, which is funny because she doesn't even drink anymore) to AG and have never looked back. AG really is the way to go. over time it saves you money and you are truly a "brewer". no offense to extract folks but i agree with mosher, it's a little TV dinner-ish.
 
I did one extract brew that came with my initial equipment kit then did one partial, and now am all-grain from batch 3 onward. I like being able to buy all the ingredients in bulk and tinker around with stuff like coolers, stir plates, keezers, etc.

More than anything, going AG made me take the time to learn about the process and yeast. I felt more responsible to the grains and the investment.
 

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