Oh my god, I hate the auto-siphon, any other suggestions??

Ok, so a few weeks ago I posted something about possibly ruining my first batch because the siphon was sucking air in. Well, the problem was the hose on the racking cane wasn't sealing. So I went out and bought two hose clamps to fix the problem. They didn't. I ended up breaking the damn racking cane trying to slide the hose down far enough to seal.

Then, I slid the hose on straight and ended up completely aerating my damn beer again. It got to the point where I just decided it was going to be terrible. I ended up with like 1 case of 12 ounce bottles. I was so upset... my first beer batch gone bad possibly. With a lot of luck it will turn out ok, but it was just terrible. Everything went perfectly except for siphoning.

So, Now that I have a hatred for the auto-siphon and mine is broken, what should I get???

I have a 3/8 inch racking cane, so maybe I could use something in conjunction with that? I don't like the half inch stuff at all, and would rather stick with 3/8's

Any ideas guys?

And what beer next?? This one was a big ben pale ale. I'm thinking an irish red or a stout next.

Thanks,
Brandon

http://www.homebrewerysupply.com/homebrew/siphons_filters.htm

Top of the page.

I think the auto-siphon rules! It eliminates the hassle of old-fashioned siphoning.

Was the bubble located immediately after where the hose fits on the racking cane? Because if it was, all you have to do is pinch the bubble and it flows easily out of your siphon tubing.

But that super-auto siphon looks awesome!

No offense, but it works fine if you just use the right size tubing. Get another with some 5/16" ID tubing, and you'll be set.

I am a fan of the simplicity of the carboy cap.



Siphoning is easy with these things.

... and they can be used to hold airlocks, too (ie; acts as a rubber stopper)
... and they can have a blowoff tube attached to them.
... and thay hold your racking cane in place so your hands are free.
... and they simply can NOT break (100% flexible rubber)
... and they cost about $2.00.

Seriously, they are like swiss army knives for carboys. The ONLY catch is that you have to buy separate ones for 5 gallon and 6.5 gallon carboys (even though both versions will be called 'universal'.)


-walker

Walker said:

I am a fan of the simplicity of the carboy cap.

Siphoning is easy with these things.

... and they can be used to hold airlocks, too (ie; acts as a rubber stopper)
... and they can have a blowoff tube attached to them.
... and thay hold your racking cane in place so your hands are free.
... and they simply can NOT break (100% flexible rubber)
... and they cost about $2.00.

Seriously, they are like swiss army knives for carboys. The ONLY catch is that you have to buy separate ones for 5 gallon and 6.5 gallon carboys (even though both versions will be called 'universal'.)


-walker

Click to expand...

So how do you start your siphon then?

ORRELSE said:

So how do you start your siphon then?

Click to expand...

Racking cane goes through the tube in the center of the cap. hose attaches and runs into the other vessel.

If the cap is on the source vessel, gently blow into the longer tube on the cap (increases pressure inside carboy and pushes beer through hose.)

If the cap is on the target vessel, gently SUCK through the longer tube on the cap (creates a vacuum inside the carboy and PULLS beer through hose.)

Very low risk of contamination, since you are not actually putting your mouth on anthing that touches the beer.

True, blowing into the carboy sounds risky, but you don't have to blow THAT hard, so you are not going to disrupt the CO2 blanket on top of the beer. I've done my siphons this way pretty much since I started brewing. Never had any issue with contamination yet (knock on head.)

-walker

Wow, thanks for all the quick response guys.

Sam75, none taken. I am just not a fan of the style of the auto-siphon, and I just kinda lost faith in it. I think I'll try the carboy tap. It looks pretty simple, and some places have them with a filter. I just hated trying to hold the auto-siphon, and pump on it, and fart around with it.

I'll try something else and see how it works out.

Hopefully second time is the charm, hehe.

Brandon

I use an auto siphon and I notice at times air coming in also.
This last weekend I think I may have figured out the problem, at least on mine.
It wasnt the hose to siphon that sometimes leaks on mine.
It's the rubber seal that goes down into the siphon that you use to generate the vacuum.

I am guessing after a bunch of uses and cleanings, that rubber seal that is the seal between your beer and the air, gets weakened and doesnt seal as well.

I noticed last weekend, if I dont keep the rod inside of the larger siphon part perfectly up and down. (For example if Im stretching to reach or im tilting a fermenter). That the rubber piece, which may have been weakned by age, looses its seal and lets air in.

Ok, thats hard to explain. So to explain it quickly.
The rubber seal may get old and may not seal as well as it use to. Make sure not to strain the seal to tube interface because it may allow air to sneak in.

Hope that makes since.

I know we Keep talking about oxygen and how is ruins the beer, but someone, a few threads ago now, mention that they didn't have all these fancy gadgets 500 years ago. Wooden buckets, dump it into jars...........away they went..............Lets not overthink things.

Ha, can't believe I just said that.........This coming from the guy who sanitizes the room prior to starting a batch....

Igorstien said:

Ha, can't believe I just said that.........This coming from the guy who sanitizes the room prior to starting a batch....

Click to expand...

Haha, I always forget to sanatize something. Ill be stirring the wort into the water in my primary and realize that the spoon isnt sanatized etc. It never fails for me. Cross my fingers, but ive never had a bad batch yet!

xpoc454 said:

I use an auto siphon and I notice at times air coming in also.
This last weekend I think I may have figured out the problem, at least on mine.
It wasnt the hose to siphon that sometimes leaks on mine.
It's the rubber seal that goes down into the siphon that you use to generate the vacuum.

I am guessing after a bunch of uses and cleanings, that rubber seal that is the seal between your beer and the air, gets weakened and doesnt seal as well.

Click to expand...

This is exactly what happened to mine. Didn't get a new one because this happened after about 10 batches. I have the Carboy rubber caps that work great . I was using my auto siphon for my primary ( Plastic Buckets) I guess its time to invest in some 6 gallon glass carboys so I can use the everlasting rubber caps.

xpoc454 said:

It wasnt the hose to siphon that sometimes leaks on mine.
It's the rubber seal that goes down into the siphon that you use to generate the vacuum. I am guessing after a bunch of uses and cleanings, that rubber seal that is the seal between your beer and the air, gets weakened and doesnt seal as well. I noticed last weekend, if I dont keep the rod inside of the larger siphon part perfectly up and down. (For example if Im stretching to reach or im tilting a fermenter). That the rubber piece, which may have been weakned by age, looses its seal and lets air in.

The rubber seal may get old and may not seal as well as it use to. Make sure not to strain the seal to tube interface because it may allow air to sneak in.

Hope that makes since.

Click to expand...

The "trick" with the auto-siphon (and many friction creating moving parts) is lubrication.

You need to get the inside of the tube wet as well as the seal before assembling it. The pieces will slide together smoother. (Just like the pistons in your car...no oil = more wear).

I don't want to call anyone an IDIOT here (so I won't), but to make it last longer you need to take it apart when you are not using it.

Leaving it together compresses the seal all the time.

Taking it apart allows the seal to relax and open up.

Elwellism: Experience will lead you where the directions don't!

Mine is always apart when not in use and I always have it wet all the way around when in use.

homebrewer_99 said:

... Leaving it together compresses the seal all the time. Taking it apart allows the seal to relax and open up. ...

Click to expand...

Damn good suggestion; I never thought of that! I do wet it before putting it together for use. But when done, I leave it apart 50% of the time and put it together the other 50%. I really never gave it a thought, I just did whatever was convenient. I'm leaving it apart from now on. Maybe put a rubber band around both pieces to keep them together.

Thanks!

You're welcome. Glad to help.

I agree I never leave mine together and always wet down before and don't seem to have any problem with my auto siphon.

I've experienced the whole "bubble in the line" also. If you think about it, how much oxygen are in those few tiny little bubbles? Not much - I tend to think that minute amount won't have any affect.

I worried about all that at first, but then I learned to just ease up a little. Drink a couple, and enjoy the show.

Lobster said:

Ok, so a few weeks ago I posted something about possibly ruining my first batch because the siphon was sucking air in. Well, the problem was the hose on the racking cane wasn't sealing. So I went out and bought two hose clamps to fix the problem. They didn't. I ended up breaking the damn racking cane trying to slide the hose down far enough to seal.

Then, I slid the hose on straight and ended up completely aerating my damn beer again. It got to the point where I just decided it was going to be terrible. I ended up with like 1 case of 12 ounce bottles. I was so upset... my first beer batch gone bad possibly. With a lot of luck it will turn out ok, but it was just terrible. Everything went perfectly except for siphoning.

So, Now that I have a hatred for the auto-siphon and mine is broken, what should I get???

I have a 3/8 inch racking cane, so maybe I could use something in conjunction with that? I don't like the half inch stuff at all, and would rather stick with 3/8's

Any ideas guys?

And what beer next?? This one was a big ben pale ale. I'm thinking an irish red or a stout next.

Thanks,
Brandon

Click to expand...

I used to have this problem and it used to drive me nuts. I now use a stainless steel racking cane that is 3/8 o.d. I use a siphon hose that is appox 5/16 i.d. Heres how I get it to fit. I imerse the tip of the siphon hose into boiling water for a little less than a minute until the hose becomes soft. I remove it from the hot water and force it over my racking cane and allow it to cool. Once the hose cools it will stay molded. It is a tight fit when I affix it to the end of the cane. I do not need clamps, this gives me a custom airtight fit that will not allow air to enter the line when I siphon. Let me know if this is any help.

Interesting discussion...I am about to brew my first batch. Coached by my local beer store guy and having read a lot on the topic, I think I am ready. This discussion poses a question on siphoning, though.

My plan was to insert the racking cane into the source (e.g. primary fermenting bucket). Then. I would put sterile solution into the plastic hose, filling the hose at least a few inches more than the length of vertical racking cane in the source. Pinch one end of the semi-filled hose to close, attach the other to the racking cane, then put the hose into a jar lower than the source. Let go, and when the beer from the source starts to come out of the hose, pinch the hose and move to the new repository (e.g. secondary fermenter or bottling bucket, as appropriate).

Does this make sense? Does it work? Sorry if it's a basic question, but I want to be certain.

Thanks!

What I do is sanitize the racking cane and hose and then connect them. I then fill them full with tap water (you could boil it if you want to, but I've never had any problems) and place my finger over the hose end so the water can't run out. Insert the racking cane into my fermenter, ensure hose is inside the next vessel, and remove my finger.

yeah, that can work, but I would actually just use boiled or distilled water to pre-fill my hose and not a sanitizer. Sanitizing solution doesn't taste good, and it's easy for a siphon to go a little wrong and suck that solution back into the beer.

I also suggest pre-assembling the hose and cane set-up and then filling it ALL with water. Then you can just put your thumbs over the two open ends of the siphon system and move it around. Take one thumb off, insert into source, lower other end to target, remove thumb.

the siphon will just start flowing. If you have a big bubble in the line someplace, pinch it for a second with your thumb and index finger. The bubble will exit the line and a solid stream of beer will take it's place.

I'm a big proponent of being frugal, but I think that SOME sort of siphoning tool is a really good idea (be it a carboy cap or autosiphon).

-walker

Thor said:

Interesting discussion...I am about to brew my first batch. Coached by my local beer store guy and having read a lot on the topic, I think I am ready. This discussion poses a question on siphoning, though.

My plan was to insert the racking cane into the source (e.g. primary fermenting bucket). Then. I would put sterile solution into the plastic hose, filling the hose at least a few inches more than the length of vertical racking cane in the source. Pinch one end of the semi-filled hose to close, attach the other to the racking cane, then put the hose into a jar lower than the source. Let go, and when the beer from the source starts to come out of the hose, pinch the hose and move to the new repository (e.g. secondary fermenter or bottling bucket, as appropriate).


Thanks!

Click to expand...

Well, I am n00b as well, and I am racking next weekend, so I figured I would dry run it last night. I did exactly as Thor stated above: attached the racking cane to the primary with a cane clip, filled my hose with cooled boiled water (after sanitizing EVERYTHING, that is: cane, hose, filler tip, bottling bucket, spigot, etc etc etc) and closed the end off (my kit came with a nice hose pinch that you can lock and unlock with one hand). I then dipped the end of the hose into Hot boiled water for a couple/10 seconds to make it more plyable and affixed it to the cane. Now, there will be a gap of air in the cane from the top of your beer level to the water in the tube. As long as your tube is long enough (mine is about 4 ft, and reaches to the floor from the cane when bucket is on counter), there will be enough suction to get that air past the lowest level of the bucket, which is all you need to achieve a syphon system. Mine worked perfectly, and there was little/no mess. I did get bubbles where the cane attached to the tube, but I remedied that by sliding the tube a little higher up on the cane, and then "tweaking it" with my finger...no more bubbles, and a nice even syphon stream.

Me and my brew-buddy came up with this one. All you need is a short section of hose that fits either inside or outside the hose that attaches to your racking cane.

Then just use the old fashion suck method! Just be sure to remove the small hose and your mouth before the beer makes contact with either... Sounds pretty cheap to me.

Have you actually done this yet?

The hose that fits around/in the siphon line has to have a pretty tight seal on it for the sucking to work, and then.... how do you EASILY get that piece of hose off of the siphon line with out touching a lot of the sipon line. I would think you might have to tug on it quite a bit, spilling some brew and getting your fingers all over it.

If you've done it and it works, nice job! Very cheap.

-walker

gibfried said:

Me and my brew-buddy came up with this one. All you need is a short section of hose that fits either inside or outside the hose that attaches to your racking cane.

Then just use the old fashion suck method! Just be sure to remove the small hose and your mouth before the beer makes contact with either... Sounds pretty cheap to me.

Click to expand...

According to alot of information that I have read, your mouth is full of lactobacillus and putting it on the end of the hose that your beer will flow thru is not a good idea. If you must do it this way, gargle with listerine before you suck start you siphon.

In my previous post I mentioned the setup I use to siphon. I have never failed to siphon my beer with this method. After everything is sanitized I attacth the hose to the cane, turn the cane upside down and coil the flexible tubing into my sanitizer bucket that is full of sanitzer. When the line is full I put my clean thumb over the open end of the tube. I then place the cane into the beer, stretch the hose all the way to the floor where a pint glass awaits and let her go. Once the siphon starts I slowly lift up the pint glass so that it is near the mouth of the carboy I then transfer the line from the glass to the carboy. By this time only beer is flowing out and all the iodiphor is out of the line Dont be afraid to use Iodophor to start your siphon, just make sure beer is flowing into your pint glass before you insert the hose into the carboy. Never fails.

After hearing all these complicated siphoning techniques, im starting appreciate my auto-siphon more and more. I dont care if a couple air bubbles may get in.

spilling some brew and getting your fingers all over it.

Click to expand...

If your anything like me you'll have your finger in that much saniti(z)sation fluid it wont be a broblem.

well... the spilling of the beer is the more horrific thought.

I fought with the racking cane when I brewed my first batch, I had a mess trying to use it to rack the wort from the brew pot to the ferm bucket, in the end I just poured it in. I ordered the auto siphon the next day and when I racked from the primary to the secondary I was amazed at how neet and clean it all worked, I had a little air but that has to be less harmful then messing with the racking cane.

I'll have to post a pic of me racking using the little orange carboy cap. Super easy/cheap. No moving parts. No pre-filled hoses. Many secondary functions.

-walker

To each his own, as long as you are employing a technique that gives you ease of use and good results, cheers.

Walker said:

Have you actually done this yet?

The hose that fits around/in the siphon line has to have a pretty tight seal on it for the sucking to work, and then.... how do you EASILY get that piece of hose off of the siphon line with out touching a lot of the sipon line. I would think you might have to tug on it quite a bit, spilling some brew and getting your fingers all over it.

If you've done it and it works, nice job! Very cheap.

-walker

Click to expand...

No, I haven't done this myself. It sounds like an easy method, but you've heard of Murphy's Law... Actually, as a NOOB I just did the old fashoned suck method for my first 5 batches until I discovered the autosiphon. I'll hold on to that one. Well I have a mash that's about ready to rinse...later brew dudes.

seansbrew said:

To each his own, as long as you are employing a technique that gives you ease of use and good results, cheers.

Click to expand...

Well said man!

Thank you Walker......m :cross: y first post anywhere about home brewing....i have yet to brew my first batch...kinda analyzing alot things i read on different boards before i buy my equipment.....this is the first thing i have read about the carboy cap....i have purchased videos and read many things online about the brewing process......looks and sounds kinda easy as long as you have the sanitation down......i was really set on going plastic because it seems easier to transfer with a spigot...but i was always looking at the long haul.....i dont want to buy a plastic fermentor to only find that if i were to scratch it, it may not be usable again.......i like the idea of glass....i dont like the idea of siphoning.....but if what you said is correct, i love the idea of glass!! sorry if i am ranting, i am drinking a goose island honkers ale now, but this sheds a whole new light on my future brewing........once again thanks to you and to all on this web site....... :cross:

Ok, I am sure that all of you are completely over this topic, but I have to add my $0.02. I am a new brewer and have been racking my brain trying to figure out why my auto siphon was not working. After much frustration I realized that I had the wrong sized tubing. Replaced it with the correct size and it worked like a champ!

So the lesson for all of you newbies, when your auto siphon doesn’t work worth a darn, double check the size of your tubing, even if it came with a brewing kit. Mine did and it was the source of much consternation.

Does anyone have a picture of their autosiphon or a link.
Mine has a pump at the top.

Walker said:

Racking cane goes through the tube in the center of the cap. hose attaches and runs into the other vessel.

If the cap is on the source vessel, gently blow into the longer tube on the cap (increases pressure inside carboy and pushes beer through hose.)

If the cap is on the target vessel, gently SUCK through the longer tube on the cap (creates a vacuum inside the carboy and PULLS beer through hose.)

Very low risk of contamination, since you are not actually putting your mouth on anthing that touches the beer.

True, blowing into the carboy sounds risky, but you don't have to blow THAT hard, so you are not going to disrupt the CO2 blanket on top of the beer. I've done my siphons this way pretty much since I started brewing. Never had any issue with contamination yet (knock on head.)

-walker

Click to expand...

I'm not going to preach about this as you've already covered it. But please remember folks that your mouth harbors one of the worst bacterias you can infect your brewery with. You can transfer it simply with your breathing. People have changed out entire peices of equipment (some expensive, some not so much) trying to get rid of lactobacillus.

For what it's worth, I've got an auto-siphon with 8 months on it (I brew a lot). I replaced it because it's full of small cracks. It's been this way for about four batches, but I finally remembered to buy a new one at the homebrew shop.

The only sealing problem I have found is within the tubing. I bought 20' of tubing at once, and cut it to length when I needed it. I've cut one piece from this tubing that did not seal - my siphon failed. I had to clamp it with a hose clamp. I retired this piece to blow-off duty, and cut a new one. It fit - it sealed without air coming in, from the same piece of tube as the first was cut.

Also, those pictures above scare the crud out of me.

orfy said:

Does anyone have a picture of their autosiphon or a link.
Mine has a pump at the top.

Click to expand...

Probably the same. Think everyone in the US has this one: