First brewday on DITCHES build - lots of beer porn!

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Budzu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
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Location
Chattanooga, TN
Well the time finally came and I put on all the finishing touches to my system that has been in the works for the past 6-8 months. Countless hours of research in electrical, cutting tools, acquiring parts and tools, and careful planning paid off in buckets. Now I have to think of something else to build! Time for that 8 foot wide triple-temp-zone walk-in cooler :)

Without the help of people who know much more than I do, this would not have been anywhere near possible. I took much example from Boerderij Kabouter (general build and cooling system), Airbalancer (control panel components), and Kal (heating element mounting) from this forum. Also Derrin from Brewer's Hardware gave me the idea to solder all of my nipples into the kegs rather than all the extra parts required for a weldless setup.

This is a 100% electric system capable of brewing 10-12 gallon low- to high-gravity OR 24 gallon low- to mid-gravity batches. It is a HERMS style system for 10-12's, and can work as a direct fire continuous recirc for 20-24 gallon. It is powered by 2 5500 watt ultra low density heating elements. Two march pumps are used to move beer and water around. Three temperature probes and the BCS-460 control system keeps all my temperatures right where I want them and organizes and logs my brewday in great detail.
The cooling method is the most interesting and unique part of the system. The concept is the brainchild of Boerderij_Kabouter from Homebrewtalk.com, who coined the system DITCHES, or Dual Immersion Thermal Coil Heat Exchange System. It involves recirculating ice water from the HLT through the boil kettle's hard mounted 50' copper coil, and simultaneously recirculating the wort through the HLT's matching coil. This results in cooling times which are absolutely ridiculous. It is way overkill and I love it.

Here are the pics I took while brewing on it for the first time. The beer is an original called "Concord Flight Ale", which is an amber ale featuring all New Zealand hops.

The system at rest
system_at_rest.JPG


Underneath - mash tun plumbing
mash_bottom_drain.JPG


Mash valve
mash_valve.JPG


Preparing for mash in
preparing_for_mash_in.JPG


Inside HLT
heating_HLT.JPG


Inside MT
inside_MT.JPG


Mashing and recirculating
continuous_recirculating_mash.JPG


Mash close-up
mash_closeup.JPG


BK runoff and first wort hopping
inside_BK_-_first_wort_hopping.JPG
 
Removing hot break
collecting_hotbreak.JPG


Boiling at 72% power/duty cycle
boiling_at_72_duty_cycle.JPG


During boil - Oxyclean and Starsan
during_boil_-_Oxyclean_and_Starsan.JPG


Configuration while boiling and circulating sanitizer, in preparation for chilling
configuration_during_boil_-_recirc_starsan.JPG


Configuration for chilling
configuration_during_chilling.JPG


The BCS-460 manual mode interface
BCS-460_manual_mode_interface.JPG


Where the beer goes to die
PICT0001.JPG
 
ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS

Weldless, serviceable kettle wiring
kettle_electrical.JPG


Brewery breaker panel
brewery_breakers.JPG


Bottom of control panel
bottom_of_CP.JPG


Temp probes and ethernet connections
temp_probe_inputs_ethernet.JPG


Switches top to bottom - BCS on/off, water pump, wort pump, HLT element, BK element
CP_switches.JPG


Inside control panel
inside_CP.JPG


inside_CP_top.JPG


inside_CP_bottom.JPG
 
Thanks BK, great to hear from you! The execution was a breeze mostly due to the system design, so :) It was such a breeze, and that was batch #1.. I'll only be ironing out kinks from here on out.
 
Very nice! The system looks great! I'm going to try a DITCHES chill on my first 10 gallon batch on the new rig.
:off:
I brewed your 'Bloody IPA' for the inaugural brew on my new rig last Saturday. OG was 1.065. Took a gravity reading last night (3 days and a few hours after pitching yeast) and it's already down to 1.013. Hydro sample tasted fantastic. Can't wait to dry hop it. Going to be a fantastic IPA. I mashed a little lower (150F) because I like a dry IPA. Might submit to a local competition next month. Thanks! :mug:
 
I'm very happy this is well received! Thanks all for kind words, I hope it inspires others to try and build on this awesome knowledge we all have available here on the site, as I have attempted to.

And nice, Diatonic! My bloody! I'm thrilled you tried it. You are right about the low mash temp, it is really important to make it dry out or its just too big and takes the focus off the hops. For some people's technique this might mean mashing 150 or below indeed. It should come out balanced, having a big malt AND hop complexity.
I wish you luck competing with it! It has done well for me and took 2nd best of show somewhere last year in a fairly large comp. I haven't competed as much since last fall, as most of my energy went to the build. Now with a great consistent system its game on!

P.s. a small misprint in that recipe, tried editing to fix but it won't take... at 10 minutes boil remaining the hop additions are: .25oz summit, .5oz palisade. Somehow it says both are summit. Sure it won't change much if you did it otherwise though. The dry hop addition is 1.5oz summit for 5-7 days.
 
Right so next time I want to see a good system in action I'm driving up from Macon, GA. Hope you like having guests :mug:

Really nice looking rig. I especially like the sweetwater keg. Did you talk the brewery out of it or lucky find?
 
Looks great. I'm in the planning/intial building of my DITCHES. I feel it's the ultimate for control and ease. I'll keep you posted as it comes along, but as you said, it's probly going to be 6 months in the making. As you brew, come back and post Pro's/Con's. Let us know if you realize something you should have done differently, otherwise i'm may be making a clone :). Although i'm possibly thinking of building up using 50 Gal barrels. All depends on whether I can get a deal on them, making them pretty close to the cost of 3 keggles.

cheers
 
You're welcome to come by, most weekends I brew. May 8th I will be turning out 48 gallons in 2 batches for our club's annual Big Brew.
And yeah I love the sweetwater keg too... had to be my HLT of course :) Actually these were paid for to whom i can't recall, one was a gift, all were in sad shape. I have one more that can hold pressure, and I will be converting it to a fermenter. I spent a long time looking for kegs.. not an easy find for me here.
 
You're welcome to come by, most weekends I brew. May 8th I will be turning out 48 gallons in 2 batches for our club's annual Big Brew.
And yeah I love the sweetwater keg too... had to be my HLT of course :) Actually these were paid for to whom i can't recall, one was a gift, all were in sad shape. I have one more that can hold pressure, and I will be converting it to a fermenter. I spent a long time looking for kegs.. not an easy find for me here.

How are you doing 48 gallons in 2 batches on that thing? I'm either doing the math wrong, or you're topping up with a lot of water :D

EDIT: Also, I had the correct 10 minute hop addition, so it must have been right in the PM you sent me. 1.5oz Summit dry-hop?.. Good lord! I had planned on 1oz and thought that might be a bit much :D. 18.5% alpha. If you say 1.5 though, I'll do it. Going to be a tongue scraper :rockin:
 
Looks great. I'm in the planning/intial building of my DITCHES. I feel it's the ultimate for control and ease. I'll keep you posted as it comes along, but as you said, it's probly going to be 6 months in the making. As you brew, come back and post Pro's/Con's. Let us know if you realize something you should have done differently, otherwise i'm may be making a clone :). Although i'm possibly thinking of building up using 50 Gal barrels. All depends on whether I can get a deal on them, making them pretty close to the cost of 3 keggles.

cheers

50 gallons would be really cool :) Are you thinking electric? That would be a real challenge.
But there is one thing i would certainly do differently and that I may still in an upgrade. I am getting a fair amount of flow restriction in my coil and somewhat so in my disconnects.
Here's how I would address it and improve:

Use copper or stainless tubing with an actual inner diameter of 1/2", with the same bore as my tubing, nipples, valves etc.
Use camlock female disconnects with male pipe thread rather than my hose barbed camlocks. Less of an issue than the coils, but I can see myself getting picky later on.

When the liquid flows through 50' of this copper tubing which has an OD of 1/2", it doesn't create much of a whirlpool. I don't mind it at all atm. I am getting constant movement against the coils for heating and cooling anyway, and after chilling, I deal with that by pumping the BK outlet straight back into the return. The whirlpool without the coil did a great job of collecting all my pellet hops, 3.5 oz. None went to my fermenters and my losses were lesser than ever.

Other than that, so far so good!
 
How are you doing 48 gallons in 2 batches on that thing? I'm either doing the math wrong, or you're topping up with a lot of water :D

EDIT: Also, I had the correct 10 minute hop addition, so it must have been right in the PM you sent me. 1.5oz Summit dry-hop?.. Good lord! I had planned on 1oz and thought that might be a bit much :D. 18.5% alpha. If you say 1.5 though, I'll do it. Going to be a tongue scraper :rockin:

24 gallon batch which will essential be like 40 lb of grain in the MT, and something like a brutus 20 recirc no-sparge direct fire with the HLT, then with the BK as a sort of sparge. Then they'll be run off into the HLT and BK as a kind of partigyle. Then blended and double boiled :) Its a sick brainchild I had a couple weeks ago. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/review-my-idea-evolution-brutus-20-a-170775/ We'll see how this goes! I'll be using a plate chiller most likely as I'll be cooling both kettles.

@ bloody IPA, it works and yes the hop is pungent :D the grain bill makes it work.
 
All I can say is WOW!!! Holy ****! You have a nice brew system!!!! One day, One day!!! Yep
 
... @ bloody IPA, it works and yes the hop is pungent :D the grain bill makes it work.

Sorry to keep your thread off topic, but it could use a bump. :)

I put it in the keg with 1oz of Summit last Saturday. Pulled the first pint tonight. Holy freaking fantastic IPA. It's a Summit kick in the chops, and I love it. Only 5 days in, it's pretty cloudy, but delicious. Going to take a sampler to the brew club meeting tomorrow. :mug:
 
That's excellent news! I have tried a few different versions of that recipe since, and I really think by far the best yet is the one you brewed, the original. I would love to hear the opinions from the club.

As to the original topic, I have insulated the MT (middle) with wide black insulation tape. It was looking rough before as you can see in the pics, now it matches the mat that it is sitting on, and looks alot cleaner.

As to the amber that I first brewed on it, it came out amazing. I am really REALLY happy with this system.

I can't wait to give it a go with two 24 gallon batches in a row on homebrew day! I have yet to try the double mash double boil method but I'm pretty confident with the idea.
 
Hey i am just curious what removing the hot break does? I have never heard of that before, but there must be a reason for it.
 
I have rarely worried about removing the hot break in the past. It is just coagulated proteins that do not taste good, and can potentially cloud finished beer. But on this system, I was blown away by the huge amount of hot break that formed as I approached the boil. There was such a thick blanket of it for whatever reason (something to do with my constant recirculation perhaps, or the mashout which I'd rarely done before, just not sure), that I took the chance to remove it right then and there.
Otherwise the break material will settle out during whirlpooling. By removing it you just have less stuff in the kettle to deal with while racking to your fermenter.
 
when you recirculate back into the keg, is the inlet valve submerged below the wort level, or is it above? If above, maybe the increase in froth is due to increased air/oxygen contact.

Also, i have nothing to back this up, but i've heard stirring the film back into the wort, therefore constantly remixing the proteins back into the beer helps with head retention in the finished product. If anyone has any truth/response to this....i'd love to be hit with some knowledge.

cheers
 
I make sure the inlet is submerged. I have several different lengths of copper pipe that I can press fit according to the amount of liquid in the vessel. No HSA for me thanks!
And the head retention of that beer is excellent, clarity is excellent. It totally makes sense though what you say about head retention. I just don't think I need anymore than what it now has :) Added note: The second batch I brewed on the system was my recipe "Mudslinger". It is an oatmeal light-brown glacier bomb. I like mudslinger to be as cloudy as I can get it, so I did not remove break, and did not add whirlfloc.
 
sounds good. I'll give it a try myself...a little trial and error and see if i notice any change in clarity/ head retention. If not....i dont see any other reason to leave it in....
 
Gorgeous. The system is like a good muscle car - plenty of performance but doesn't have to be shiny to be bad-ass :)

Hey, can you tell me where you got those switches on the side of your control panel? I'm having a heck of a time finding them for my build.

Thanks,

-Joe
 
OMG, what an awesome system. Congrats on breaking it in! :mug:

Also, if no one has mentioned it yet, I think it's spelled "Conchords" :)
 
Gorgeous. The system is like a good muscle car - plenty of performance but doesn't have to be shiny to be bad-ass :)

Hey, can you tell me where you got those switches on the side of your control panel? I'm having a heck of a time finding them for my build.

Thanks,

-Joe

Thanks all! The switches are from automation direct, they are plastic 120v. Here's the links for the particular ones I used. There are also metal body versions available there.
m_gcx3350.jpg

Black plastic 2 position (used for pumps, no BCS automation) - $8
m_gcx3251120l.jpg

Red plastic 2 position LED (safety on-off for elements, overrides BCS) - $15.75
 
How is your BCS? Is it easy to program? I just ordered one, and cant wait to try it out! Are you ever going to add automated valves?
 
Thanks Budzu. So do the switches for the elements just break the connections to the SSRs? They certainly aren't beefy enough to kill the element itself - they're rated 6.5A at 120v.

-Joe
 
Nostalgia:
You are right, the switches do not switch the elements, rather they switch the "contactors" (located to the direct right of the SSR's), which in turn switch on or off both legs of the power to the 2 elements. If they are off, they are off no matter what the BCS says. If they are on, they are controlled by the BCS.
There is no hard "on".

As to the pumps, I do not plan to automate them whatsoever. Priming is always a manual issue with the March brand pumps, so it involves actively switching on/off, whatever you need to do to fill the lines with liquid. If I had peristaltic pumps then I could think about automation..

And Jmurm: you will be so happy to find that the BCS is super easy to program! Right now I am not using manual mode but have a 7 state process programmed that gets me through the entire brew day, preheat to chill. And there are like 7 processes you can preset. 7 states are max per process.

It will make alot of sense once you get into it via your browser. Very intuitive, and I spent maybe 30 minutes getting the entire process programmed. You are in for a real treat! good luck and have fun!
 
Very nice system. Maybe someday....

One thing I've always been curious about regarding these types of systems is the difficulty of cleanup. If you have your chiller permanently attached to your kettle I'd think it would be fairly difficult to clean. I imagine there's still some scrubbing required even if you run Oxyclean through it. In addition, do you need to disassemble to finish the cleaning so you can tilt the kettle/LT/MT and give it a final rinse out, or do you have some other method of doing it?
 
Wowowowow! Talk about a lot of work, looks awesome! The 5500 watt heating elements must cost $$$ to run. How long does it take to bring to a boil compared to gas?
 
Very nice system. Maybe someday....

One thing I've always been curious about regarding these types of systems is the difficulty of cleanup. If you have your chiller permanently attached to your kettle I'd think it would be fairly difficult to clean. I imagine there's still some scrubbing required even if you run Oxyclean through it. In addition, do you need to disassemble to finish the cleaning so you can tilt the kettle/LT/MT and give it a final rinse out, or do you have some other method of doing it?

The coils aren't actually permanently attached. I used these handy little fittings from bargainfittings.com, called unions. I just need to unscrew them and the whole coil pops right off.
halfunion.jpg

http://www.greatbargain.net/order/shop2.html
So every brew I do remove the coil from the BK and clean it manually. Otherwise cleanup isn't bad, its easier than what I was doing before, now that I can pump oxyclean around. Most of the cleaning gets done during the boil (HLT and MT).
As for the MT, I never move it, I just scoop out most of the grain with a big scoop, then shopvac it clean before pumping oxy into it and scrubbing a bit with a brush. Rinsing it is easy with the bottom drain and the removable false bottom. Then everything gets a nice soak of starsan before I call it a day.
I'm thinking every 5 brews or 3 months I'll do a full disassembly and cleaning.
 
Wowowowow! Talk about a lot of work, looks awesome! The 5500 watt heating elements must cost $$$ to run. How long does it take to bring to a boil compared to gas?

The boil comes super quick. I did water tests with 14 gallons and I think I had 55-170 in about 50 minutes, 170-boil in 12 minutes. I was using propane before with a rusty turkey fryer setup, and it is no contest. I have not calculated what the element actually costs to run, but with PID's controlling them, they are only running when they need to, and there is NO lost power. Propane was costing me alot of $, and I was losing alot of heat that way. My electricity is cheap and my house doesn't consume much. However, the brewery is growing and will soon meet the limit of its 100 amp service :)
 
Nostalgia:
You are right, the switches do not switch the elements, rather they switch the "contactors" (located to the direct right of the SSR's), which in turn switch on or off both legs of the power to the 2 elements. If they are off, they are off no matter what the BCS says. If they are on, they are controlled by the BCS.
There is no hard "on".
Is contactor another word for relay? Any reason you went that route instead of a high-amp switch like the one you used for a main power disconnect?

-Joe
 
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