expensive ag ?

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MarcusKillion

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color me crazy but I spend about 20 to 30 bucks for partial and no boil kits and make some very good beer . Some I do add in a some grains for extra flavor . How ever I just did my first all grain . 47 bucks ! 5 gallons . took me half a day to do it instead of 1 hour . It was a nut brown .
So I thought AG was supposed to be cheaper . Hmmmm.

Okay one more thing on AG . volume of water was way too much in my opinion , 7.88 gallons and took me 1 hour and 20 minutes to boil down to 5 gallons at a full hard boil . Hope that did not affect the bittering hops too much.
Also used a large cooler for tun and when I poured in my 165 water it dropped to 130 so I had to drain some off several times and get it to boil and pour back over grain to get temp up . Hope the slight time it was very hot does not ruin my beer. Think I will switch to a igloo beverage cooler instead of the ice chest as it is smaller diameter and should not loose so much heat when adding in water.

so any comments ? Especially on cost of grain . did I just use a high cost recipe ?

9 pds pale malt
1 pound caramel malt
1 pound oats
.50 victory malt
.25 chocolate malt
1 oz fuggles
1 oz goldings kent
2 packs nottingham

keeping in mind that i had to buy 1 pound of each malt .
 
All grain brewing is much less expensive for me. About three quarters the cost because I save my yeast from one batch the the next so that doesn't factor in. There are a number of other advantages as well like control and consistency.

Cost per gravity point:
DME 11.3 cents
LME 10.8 cents
barley malt (at 70% efficiency) 7.0 cents. Even cheaper if you buy a 50lb bag.
 
Well, the no-boil kits are definitely the cheapest way to go. But I didn't like the quality. If you're totally satisfied with the quality, you probably won't save money by going AG unless you can get in on some bulk grain buys and mill your own grain.

That said, $47 for a 5 gallon batch is outrageous. You doubled the cost of yeast, as you didn't need two packages, but that is only about $3 "extra".

Since I pay for grain at less than $1/pound (except for specialty grains), that recipe you listed would cost me about $19. It would actually be less, as I don't usually buy hops individually, and buy them by the pound. But if you're buying them individually they are often $2-3 an ounce.

But the hops are the same cost no matter what kind of brewing you do (except for those prehopped kits). The biggest cost savings comes from buying grain, which is cheaper than DME. DME is $12 or so for three pounds, and you need two packages for a 5 gallon batch. Grain is cheaper than that. 9 pounds of base grain would equal about 5 pounds of DME, so the costs there would be $20 for the extract, and $7 for the grain. That's a $13 savings. The rest would all be the same.

You either got totally ripped off on the grain, or something else isn't right in your $47 batch.
 
keeping in mind that i had to buy 1 pound of each malt .

I presume you don't have an LHBS available? I realize that rounding up is a fact with ordering ala-carte online, but my LHBS will take a recipe and mix/grind all the right amounts. Still $47 sounds really high. Shop around for better grain prices.

As far as having to remove wort mid-mash and boil, that should not be a problem, because it is alot like decoction mashing.
 
I agree all grain is super cheap, DME at my lhbs is around $5 a pound as apposed to 2 lbs of 2 row [what my normal pale alle uses] bein less than $4
It would be 75% of that if I bought a 50 lb bag but I think im going to wait till income tax time to do it since I need a new mill and quiet a few more fermenters
 
You got totally raped on that one man.. For 47 dollars I could brew a 10 gallon batch of barleywine. Try Brewmasters Warehouse if you don't have a LHBS, the prices are good, AFAIK he still does flat shipping unlike some of the others are doing now, and his crush is great so you shouldn't have to over sparge to get fair efficiency.
 
That is way too much. I usually buy whole sacks and split sacks of specialty grain. That recipe would cost me about $14. It would cost $11 if I used washed yeast.
 
I just made an 11 gallon brew day for 44usd, yeast and everything. Maybe look at some of the board sponsors.

Austin, Midwest, farmhouse and northern are all good companies with more than superior pricing.
 
My batches got significantly cheaper moving to all grain. My biggest savings come by buying my base malt in bulk. My LHBS gives a bulk discount and then stacks at 10% military discount on top of it saving me almost $1 per pound.

Additionally, like mentioned before, reusing yeast or making a starter from one tube/pack of yeast for 5+ gallon batches.

Also, invest in a good burner if you are going to stick with AG. You WILL use a great deal more water and the turkey fryer from your local retail store just won't cut it for time.
 
Thats seems really expensive.
My AG brews cost much less than my extract brews. Also, I usually collect 7 gallons of wort and boil an hour and get 5.75-6 gallons into the fermenter.
 
Greatfermentations.com you don't have to buy whole lbs of grain or full oz of hops, flat rate shipping for most orders also. Its my "L" hbs (about an hour away that's why I buy online) but prices aren't too high and free crushing, (I get about 72% efficiency with their crush)
 
Best way to seriously save when going all grain is to get in on group grain buys. Get enough grain (at least base malt) to carry you through to the next group grain buy. Most homebrew clubs do at least a couple of grain buys a year. There are more posted on the boards here too. You can easily get your base malt for under $1/# even after all the shipping is included.

BTW, my 15% barleywine batch (brewed on the 27th) came to just under $47. That was with two vials of yeast costs, and 30# of grain. Only used 4oz of hops in it, so that wasn't bad.

Also get your hops in bulk when they're on sale/special. Get a vacuum packer (food saver) and use that to repack them once opened. Keep the hops in the freezer and you're set.

If you want to save even more, you can also look into washing yeast and even freezing it. IF you have the space to do so. Make yeast starters and you reduce how much yeast you'll buy.

You can usually get DME in 3# bags that are less per pound than getting 1# bags. At the LHBS, a 1# bag is $5. The 3# bag is $14. I use the DME for starters, so the 3# bag lasts some time. :rockin:
 
[...] I just did my first all grain . 47 bucks! 5 gallons. [...] so any comments ? Especially on cost of grain . did I just use a high cost recipe ?

9 pds pale malt
1 pound caramel malt
1 pound oats
.50 victory malt
.25 chocolate malt
1 oz fuggles
1 oz goldings kent
2 packs nottingham

keeping in mind that i had to buy 1 pound of each malt .

Hey, I've just brewed exactly the same nut brown yesterday! I think you payed way too much. My local store (Just Brew It, South Atlanta, GA) charged me 23.40, but I bought only one package of yeast, and whatever amount of specialty grains that the recipe called for:

9 lb pale malt - 9x0.99=8.91
1 lb flaked oats - 1x1.89=1.89
1.75 lb specialty grains - 1.75x1.89=3.31
1 oz fuggles - 1.99
1 oz goldings kent - 1.99
1 pack nottingham - 3.99
6% tax - 1.32
TOTAL: 23.40
 
$2/ounce of hops??? Wow... I haven't paid close to that in some time. Most I paid, in the past year, was $1/oz for EKG. HopeDirect has much better pricing.
 
$2/ounce of hops??? Wow... I haven't paid close to that in some time. Most I paid, in the past year, was $1/oz for EKG. HopeDirect has much better pricing.
Yes, it is on my list of future improvements... Ideally I would like to grow and harvest my own hops :)
 
At my LHBS the grain and hops came in at $13.45 per your recipe and they only sell hops in 2oz packets. I wash and reuse my own yeast so it makes for a pretty affordable batch. You really need to shop around!
 
Hey, I've just brewed exactly the same nut brown yesterday! I think you payed way too much. My local store (Just Brew It, South Atlanta, GA) charged me 23.40, but I bought only one package of yeast, and whatever amount of specialty grains that the recipe called for:

9 lb pale malt - 9x0.99=8.91
1 lb flaked oats - 1x1.89=1.89
1.75 lb specialty grains - 1.75x1.89=3.31
1 oz fuggles - 1.99
1 oz goldings kent - 1.99
1 pack nottingham - 3.99
6% tax - 1.32
TOTAL: 23.40

you have to pay tax? In NY all food items aren't taxed. Grain and yeast are food items, I think hops are considered herbs? They don't seem to be taxed either.
 
Yes, it is on my list of future improvements... Ideally I would like to grow and harvest my own hops :)

Not an option for me (growing hops) since I'm using all UK hops. Besides, I have a freezer almost full of hops (been working on reducing how much is in there). It's the freezer that's the top second of my brew fridge (a 10 cubic foot freezer top fridge). :D I need to see how many pounds of hops I have in there currently. :D

BTW, look at what Farmhouse Brewing Supply has for prices on 4oz packets of hops. They offer package sizes of 1oz, 4oz and 1#... :rockin: I used to get my hops from them in 4oz packets (all they offered at the time).
 
Not an option for me (growing hops) since I'm using all UK hops. Besides, I have a freezer almost full of hops (been working on reducing how much is in there). It's the freezer that's the top second of my brew fridge (a 10 cubic foot freezer top fridge). :D I need to see how many pounds of hops I have in there currently. :D

BTW, look at what Farmhouse Brewing Supply has for prices on 4oz packets of hops. They offer package sizes of 1oz, 4oz and 1#... :rockin: I used to get my hops from them in 4oz packets (all they offered at the time).

How do you estimate the shelf life of frozen hops (sealed and resealed)?
 
bredstein said:
How do you estimate the shelf life of frozen hops (sealed and resealed)?

It is good to break them down to packages of 4 ounces if you buy pounds, and seal them. Do that and they will last a good 2 years.
 
MarcusKillion said:
Also used a large cooler for tun and when I poured in my 165 water it dropped to 130 so I had to drain some off several times and get it to boil and pour back over grain to get temp up .

preheat that tun. I heat water well over strike temp, then dump in the grain when it reaches strike temp. Stays steady for the hour.
 
Going AG was way way way cheaper for me... I did a stout, that for extract cost me over $60 all in.

I brewed a WAY bigger russian imperial stout, that was way bigger in AG, with more hops, and even more yeast for a starter, and it cost me only $42 bucks.
 
That is way too much. I usually buy whole sacks and split sacks of specialty grain. That recipe would cost me about $14. It would cost $11 if I used washed yeast.

I 2nd that. Overspending seems to be what happened. Brew days typically run about 4.5 hours, and imo boiling 7.9 gal of water to 5 is too much. Try less sparge or mash water.
 
It is good to break them down to packages of 4 ounces if you buy pounds, and seal them. Do that and they will last a good 2 years.

I've done that, as well as just put what's left into another vacuum sealed bag. I have plenty of bags for the food saver on hand, plus some rolls. When I was brewing at my buddy's place, I would break the pound of hops into 1-2oz packets to take with me. Made it easier that way.

I hope/expect to have all of the current hops used up before they are 2 years old. Luckily, most of them are still in their original sealed bags. :D
 
i spent 39.33 at my local and got
15 lb marris otter
1 lb crystal 2
3 oz palisade hops
1 lb corn sugar
and a pack of wyeast american ale
but there crusher sucks and i only got a 66% mash eff which really ticks me off
 
I don't know...being able to absolutely control the overall taste of the extract with AG would be worth more to me, but I'd agree that something isn't right here. I averaged $40-$55 for 5 gallon extract batches and between $25-$35 for all grain, depending on hops and whether I use premium yeast. If the bulk of the recipe is 2-row, it usually falls into the ~$20 range since I can buy that in bulk for cheap. And I'm in MT, where economy of scale makes everything more expensive.
 
My 'normal' batches (6.75-7.25 gallons into primary) run in the $20-$30 range. Depends on which base malt I use more than anything (Pale Ale is less per pound that Maris Otter). I see the cost savings as a benefit of all grain brewing, on top of the product control. I always use liquid yeast (Wyeast most of the time) but buy my hops at a better per pound rate. I'm looking at freezing yeast, for use later, too. IF it works as well as I hope, I might only buy a few packs a year (to get the strain) and then just use reserved/frozen yeast for the rest.

There are ways to trim costs on batches, you just need to figure out what makes sense for you. BUT, you shouldn't pay too much for your grains.
 
$47 for 12 pounds of grain and a few ounces of hops is way too much and I have no idea why that would have been so much (unless you ordered online and had to pay a bunch in shipping). Boiling for over 60min doesn't really impact hop utilization at all.

There are always kinks to work out in your venturing into new territory so I wouldn't worry too much about that part...

(has this person even responded to any of the comments?)
 
Originally Posted by bredstein

Yes, it is on my list of future improvements... Ideally I would like to grow and harvest my own hops :)

Do that for 10 years and you'll be happy to go back to paying for them. I was.
.

Haha yes, when I can buy a pound of CTZ for around 10 bucks shipped how can I grow hops? The labor involved in growing and drying and packaging a pound of hops is substantial! Only makes sense if it's a labor of love IMHO!

Back on topic...buying malt and hops in bulk and reusing yeast the cost of the beer is nearly "too cheap to meter". 2-3 bucks a gallon for a basic 5% pale ale I'd guess. When I go out, pints are $4 - $7 dollars, so for me the beer at home is almost free.:mug:
 
You got totally raped on that one man.. For 47 dollars I could brew a 10 gallon batch of barleywine. Try Brewmasters Warehouse if you don't have a LHBS, the prices are good, AFAIK he still does flat shipping unlike some of the others are doing now, and his crush is great so you shouldn't have to over sparge to get fair efficiency.

Plus you can have ounces or even half ounces of grains in your grain bill, you don't need to buy entire pounds of specialty malts
 
Plus you can have ounces or even half ounces of grains in your grain bill, you don't need to buy entire pounds of specialty malts

Maybe it's just me, but when I have to buy specialty grains, I deliberately buy at least twice as much as I need for the recipe I'm working on. I figure I'm at the store already anyway, and if I like the beer I may want to make it again, or I'll likely use it in another beer at some point and I don't want to have to wait to order it online or make another trip to the LHBS, and it's only a couple bucks anyway ... so I just buy a couple pounds' worth.

Granted, I have my own grain mill at home, so the grain might not get used for a few months, but still, I figure for the extra couple of bucks, it might come in handy down the road.

Anyone else do this too?
 
Depending on where I'm getting the non-base malt from I typically get at least a few pounds. I then seal it up either via a ziplock bag, or vacuum pack it (in 8-16oz bags) for use later. I'll weigh out what I need for the recipe I'll be brewing and make sure to order/get more before I run out (completely).

Having your own grain mill/crusher makes things vastly easier on brew day. Have a good scale and you no longer need to worry about the store weighing the grain wrong.
 
WOW! Holy effing crap . I been taken for a wild ride . I bought the grain at my local brew store . 7.50 for 5 pounds of 2 row and 2.50 a pound for the others , so there is 25 bucks for thew grain and I still have some left over but ... forgot what the hops and yeast cost but I guess about 16 bucks since all I also bought was a 2.30 bottle of wyeast yeast energizer. guess I better check prices online next time .

hey one more thing . I made a wort chiller out of soft copper . I forgot to wash that thing off before putting it in my wort . I put it in while still boiling to sanitize it but I am wondering if any bad tastes or chemicals may come from the unwashed off copper ?
 
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