Bottling Tips for the Homebrewer

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Now now boys,,,,play nice. We don't want anyone spittin' the dummy and throwing their toys out of the pram:D:mug:
 
So you know what a carboy airlock is right? You know that bubbles come up right? When fermentation slows down the bubbles slow down right? Do I have you at this point? The slow down tends to line up perfectly with the typical fermentation slow down or typical primary fermentation for particular styles.

Fermentation is not always dynamic...just because you don't SEE anything happening doesn't mean that the yeast aren't happily chewing away at whatever fermentables are in there....the only way to know comes from gravity readings, and nothing else.

Your airlock will slow down LONG BEFORE fermentation is complete.

Your airlock is NOT a fermentation gauge, despite what instructions or other people may have said. It is a VENT, and VALVE to release EXCESS co2 as needed. The amount of bubbles have no correlation to some concrete rate of fermentation. Initially there may be lots of bubbles, because lots of co2 is being generated in the first few days of fermentation. But eventually there's going to be less EXCESS co2 being produced, that doesn't mean fermentation is done, it just means that since most of the sugars have been consumed, the yeast are farting co2 less. SO the rate may change, or it may stop completely because there's no EXCESS being produced.

It could just as easily be bubbling or stop bubbling for that matter, due to changes in barometric pressure, temperature, or whether or not the cat or vacuum cleaner bumped into it, as it could be to because it's still fermenting.

Activity, action, bubbles, even krausen can be affected by the envoironment just as much as it being caused by the yeast...so going by that is NOT reliable.

Bubblling or lack of means nothing, like others have said the biggest part of fermentation has wound down, but that doesn't mean there's still not a lot of work for the yeast to still do.

If you want to know what's going on with your beer, then take a gravity reading. The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

A recent "Brew" magazine article essentially said you only need at most 10-14 days for carbonation. Yes, you can mature them longer but will not change the carbonation.

And yet EVERY DAY on here, we get 5-10 threads that say something like "It's day 10 (or 12 or 14 or day 21) and my beer's not carbed yet. Of various types of beers. Of various gravites..... Every day.

Articles are great, but the REALITY of the situation, which we deal with every day on here, is that 3 weeks is the minimum it appears to take for MOST BEERS.

A lot of noobs my get some fizz early but as the video at the beginning of this sticky shows, fizzy and TRULY CARBED are two different things.

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlBlnTfZ2iw[/ame]

You don't have to look too far even beyond this thread to see where folks have said that their beers take at least 3 weeks to carb fully. The sheer numbers back it up.

I don't unsubscribe to the threads I answer, and so I see the follow ups...about a quarter of my postcount is answering bottling questions, and of those threads about 75% of the posters come back and report what happened to their "problem child" and of those where there's a followup 99% the beer carb up fine....somewhere after 3 weeks.

So no matter what the author of the "brew" magazine might or might not believe.....we have the sheer volume of thousands of posters who've actually EXPERIENCED this truth.

Anyway, if you want to have a debate about this or anything, take it out of this thread. This place is really supposed to be about people's tips to make bottling easier and less stressful.
 
I won't quote anything from the above post, but only say: Listen To Revvy. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^:D

All of my beers except those requiring bulk aging or dry hopping = 4 weeks primary, then bottle.

All of my beers except huge things that take a long time to condition = 4 weeks in bottle, then drink.

Easy to remember, and it works.
 
Fermentation is not always dynamic...just because you don't SEE anything happening doesn't mean that the yeast aren't happily chewing away at whatever fermentables are in there....the only way to know comes from gravity readings, and nothing else.........



I can attest to that. Last week I brewed a one gallon batch of Caribou Slobber. I haven't seen any airlock activity since then, so I started to worry I may have had some yeast issue or something.

I planned on waiting it out, what was suggested here, but my anxiety got the best of me and I had to see for myself. I know you can't rely on the airlock exclusively as a fermentation gauge, but had I at least seen one little bubble between then and today, I would not be posting this reply and instead just waiting about 2.5 weeks later to do a gravity check.

So, I open the bucket lid to see a nice looking krausen on top and nothing wrong. This tells me I have some sort of venting issue with my bucket and lid (not a good enough seal). No problem as I won't use that particular bucket next time. Everything looks good, so now I'm not going to worry about it and will sit and continue to ride it out as suggested by the good folks of this forum.

Short story was, that "RDWHAHB" comment that you see posted every time you click on a topic is some seriously underrated advice.

Thanks brewmasters. :mug:
 
I think so.... you're referring to the little vent that goes into the hole in the bung atop my carboy, right? :confused:



That's one of the many things that can cause a change in pressure inside the fermenter, resulting in a change in the rate of airlock bubbles. Some of the others are a change in temperature, barometric pressure, floorboards shifting, or as the OP of this Sticky likes to point out, the family cat rubbing up on the carboy. There's a laundry list of others, but I think you catch my drift.



Personally, I let the yeast determine when fermentation is complete. When I see that there's no activity in the carboy, I take an SG reading. ~72 hours later I'll take another. If those two readings coincide, I'll consider fermentation to be complete, and will take the appropriate next step.



Based on what? How does one's assumption of the end of fermentation influence the time bottle conditioning takes?



I agree, the bottle conditioning process takes longer than ten to 14 days.



Tell me Jeff, is all this wonderful information that you're sharing on this Sticky part of the education you received at UC Davis or where ever?

FWIW, if you haven't figured it out yet, I don't believe for a second that you have any sort of formal training in brewing, much less one from a well respected program like UC Davis. I base that solely on the fact that had you the education you claim to have, you would know better than to claim such education as a means to legitimize the things you've said on this and other threads over the last couple of days. I'm not gonna beat around the bush with sarcasm here, lets be real, it's f'n laughable that you think anyone would believe you're an alum of UC Davis' brewing sciences program when you're saying things like "airlock bubbles every 2-3 minutes means fermentation is complete" and "If you do everything else right, you don't need a yeast starter". The latter being something you claim to have heard "in your last class at Davis". In my best 'Boomer' voice, "C'MON MAN!"

***You have every right to believe what you want. No one will stop you from saying what you want to say. I just figured that I had to dum it down for you. If you wanted me to get technical with you, you should have just said so. If I read your posts correctly, you brew, you place your carboy in the closet and wait. Then check it whenever. That might work for many people but I tend to take temp readings daily at the same time of the day so I can see how the fermentation is progressing and so I can repeat it fairly easily in the future. The brewing environment that you work in plays a big role if you try to control certain aspects of your production. I'm the type of person that calculates his IBU beforehand based on my AA%'s/Utilization from boiling time. I consistently test my water pH every few months to make sure nothing has changed (even if my city sends me a breakdown) and I filter it. Every person has their own approach. Having more or less posts in here does not make you an expert. I've only posted when I was unsure of something or when I was looking for responses to difficult questions. If you sole intent is to be a ******, then be a ******.

As to the question of my schooling from Davis. Great group of guys there. A few pics from the Sudwerk brewery and one of the notebooks.
****

Davis_Notebook.jpg


IMG_0288.jpg


IMG_0291.jpg
 
Enough. Keep it on topic and without namecalling. There's technical info sprinkled throughout the bickering, so I'm not going to spend the time to edit and delete the offending posts. I'll simply close and/or delete the whole thread if the childish antics continue.
 
NordeastBrewer77 said:
:rolleyes: I'd hardly say that I'm the one being ******-y here, man. As did others, I simply pointed out the flaw in what you'd posted. I'll give you this, I may have been quick here to call a spade a spade due to you and I conversing on another thread. As you can clearly see on that thread (I linked it several times above), I simply stated that I didn't agree with your assessment on tannin extraction. You then (your words) "went Papazian" on the thread, which I and others quickly pointed out might be inaccurate/dated advice. You then seemed to take great offense (based on your posts) and said you'd finished the Brewing Sciences program at UC Davis... which in and of itself is believable, I would have no reason to doubt that except for the rest of the sentence (something about yeast health/pitch rates). That, combined with your mention of airlock bubbles on this thread is why I question your honesty about that. (on a side note about "airlock bubbles": I brewed up a pale ale last night and used an "S' type lock for the first time in months, maybe a year. I noticed how little it bubbles compared to the 3 pieces I mainly use. When counting seconds between airlock bubbles, should I consider which type of airlock I'm using or is it just a general rule? :D )
See Jeff, what happens when you assume that you need to dumb down things for everyone, is that many people will take that as you being the dumb one for the way you say things. Personally, I prefer to give it to folks simple, straight, and well explained, but in a fashion that doesn't sound like talking down. I'm sorry if by disagreeing and pointing out my reasons for doing so is, by you, "shouting from a mountain" and somehow offensive but really, I'm just trying to point out flawed advice so that others don't make mistakes. If that's ******-y, so be it, but in my honest opinion, I think it's pretty ******-y to act like a child instead of saying, "Oh, maybe what I read in that book was wrong" when someone corrects what you've said. :mug:

Definitly three piece. The S is for looks. Comments acknowledged and apologize for *****y remark. If you're calling me a child, that's fine by me. Outdated doesn't mean it's wrong, just outdated and "perhaps" less applicable but not inaccurate. Hey, when you have your own Yeast strain on loan with White Labs then I'll say "perhaps this guy is right". In the meantime Cry Havoc
 
Sorry Revvy, sorry Yuri, I'll stick with just the technical. This thread's too useful a thing to link to new brewers to keep muddling it up. :mug:

I've gone back and edited my posts. Sorry for feeding the troll, I just couldn't help myself. I'll lay off from here on out.
 
I've got a quick question about the waiting 3 weeks for carb thing. I brewed a BDSA that ended up stronger than anticipate thanks to a boost in efficiency on my highest gravity brew. OG was 1.098 and fermented down to about 1.005 with 3711. I made a starter. I bottled after about a month (stable gravity), waited 3 weeks, and it was dead flat. waited another few weeks, and barely got a 'phst', but no carb detectable in the drinking, no head. After another few weeks it had just the slightest hint of residual carbonation, but no head and still tastes sweet. I've been rolling them every week or even more often, and it's been 3 months now. I made a 1.089-1.014 Imp Stout with the same yeast (3 week primary) and it was carbed after about 10 days, and pretty tasty. The only difference I remember was the use of oxygen absorbing caps on the BDSA. They seem fairly clear to the light with much smaller than usual yeast cake at the bottom of the bottles. Would the lack of oxygen not allow the yeast to reproduce in-bottle and fail to eat up the sugars? Would accidentally scorching the sugar solution make it unfermentable? I don't remember doing so, but that's the only other thing I can think of.
 
I've got a quick question about the waiting 3 weeks for carb thing. I brewed a BDSA that ended up stronger than anticipate thanks to a boost in efficiency on my highest gravity brew. OG was 1.098 and fermented down to about 1.005 with 3711. I made a starter. I bottled after about a month (stable gravity), waited 3 weeks, and it was dead flat. waited another few weeks, and barely got a 'phst', but no carb detectable in the drinking, no head. After another few weeks it had just the slightest hint of residual carbonation, but no head and still tastes sweet. I've been rolling them every week or even more often, and it's been 3 months now. I made a 1.089-1.014 Imp Stout with the same yeast (3 week primary) and it was carbed after about 10 days, and pretty tasty. The only difference I remember was the use of oxygen absorbing caps on the BDSA. They seem fairly clear to the light with much smaller than usual yeast cake at the bottom of the bottles. Would the lack of oxygen not allow the yeast to reproduce in-bottle and fail to eat up the sugars? Would accidentally scorching the sugar solution make it unfermentable? I don't remember doing so, but that's the only other thing I can think of.


You're overthinking it. Basically the yeast are tired.

It's more than likely simply the fact that it's a BIG BEER. Haven't you noticed the discussions in this thread on throughout the forum about how BIG BEERS can take MONTHS to finally carb up with out a little extra yeast help at bottling time?

You haven't seen where I've in just about EVERY bottling thread I answer, the little cut and paste about how my 1.090 Belgian Strong Ale took about 6 months to carb up?

You haven't seen this pretty famous picture from one of our old members?

chart.jpg


Even now, if you want you can uncap add fresh yeast and recap (I'd use new caps) and that will help it along.

I recommend using a medicine eye dropper with graduations on it. Rehydrate some dry yeast in warm water, and using the sanitized eye dropper and squirt a couple mls of yeast into the bottles, cap, shake and leave them for a couple more weeks.

Or wait. But yeah it's probably not because you caramlized the priming sugar (have you EVER actually done it before?) Or not enough oxygen, it's just that those puppies in there did alot to make that Big Beligan into the boozy wonder that it probably is. An just like your fat uncle Joe on Thanksgiving day after 3 helpings of turkey and all the fixings, have undone their belts, taken one look at the Pumpkin Pie, and said, "No Mas." :)
 
I've got a quick question about the waiting 3 weeks for carb thing. I brewed a BDSA that ended up stronger than anticipate thanks to a boost in efficiency on my highest gravity brew. OG was 1.098 and fermented down to about 1.005 with 3711. I made a starter. I bottled after about a month (stable gravity), waited 3 weeks, and it was dead flat. waited another few weeks, and barely got a 'phst', but no carb detectable in the drinking, no head. After another few weeks it had just the slightest hint of residual carbonation, but no head and still tastes sweet. I've been rolling them every week or even more often, and it's been 3 months now. I made a 1.089-1.014 Imp Stout with the same yeast (3 week primary) and it was carbed after about 10 days, and pretty tasty. The only difference I remember was the use of oxygen absorbing caps on the BDSA. They seem fairly clear to the light with much smaller than usual yeast cake at the bottom of the bottles. Would the lack of oxygen not allow the yeast to reproduce in-bottle and fail to eat up the sugars? Would accidentally scorching the sugar solution make it unfermentable? I don't remember doing so, but that's the only other thing I can think of.

You're overthinking it. Basically the yeast are tired.

It's more than likely simply the fact that it's a BIG BEER. Haven't you noticed the discussions in this thread on throughout the forum about how BIG BEERS can take MONTHS to finally carb up with out a little extra yeast help at bottling time?

You haven't seen where I've in just about EVERY bottling thread I answer, the little cut and paste about how my 1.090 Belgian Strong Ale took about 6 months to carb up?

You haven't seen this pretty famous picture from one of our old members?

chart.jpg


Even now, if you want you can uncap add fresh yeast and recap (I'd use new caps) and that will help it along.

I recommend using a medicine eye dropper with graduations on it. Rehydrate some dry yeast in warm water, and using the sanitized eye dropper and squirt a couple mls of yeast into the bottles, cap, shake and leave them for a couple more weeks.

Or wait. But yeah it's probably not because you caramlized the priming sugar (have you EVER actually done it before?) Or not enough oxygen, it's just that those puppies in there did alot to make that Big Beligan into the boozy wonder that it probably is. An just like your fat uncle Joe on Thanksgiving day after 3 helpings of turkey and all the fixings, have undone their belts, taken one look at the Pumpkin Pie, and said, "No Mas." :)

Yeah, what he said. My BGSA (1.119 OG 1.019FG) took 8-9 MONTHS to carb after adding 5ML fresh yeast to each bottle. I did leave it in the fermentor for quite awhile though.
 
Yeah, what he said. My BGSA (1.119 OG 1.019FG) took 8-9 MONTHS to carb after adding 5ML fresh yeast to each bottle. I did leave it in the fermentor for quite awhile though.

To add to this, I have a ~9.2% No. 3 Burton pale ale that's been in bottles since 8/23, it's just now carbed and is still green, it needs more time. That was with a re-pitch at bottling because I bulk aged for ~6 months. There's no real way around it, it's the yeast's job to carb and condition our beer. Sure, they'll get 'er done quick like in a low gravity session beer, 3 or so weeks, but in beers like a golden strong or an old ale, you may be talking months. Many months in the case of the poster I quoted. I think Revvy had a similar timeframe with a similar beer, no?
 
You haven't seen where I've in just about EVERY bottling thread I answer... :)

This is becoming a problem with a lot of the larger threads here. People don't read through the middle of the thread to get to answers that were brought up. I don't blame a lot of people because some threads have 100+ pages, but the additional question asked at the end adds to the length and makes it worse. Some threads need condensing or search within threads. Some people need to do the work and read. These threads are for all newbies, but they aren't for each individual newbie. Some threads have been ruined by repetitive comments and off topic comments. It makes this great educational tool harder to use and less effective.

This post probably doesn't help, but I hope it reaches a moderator and the problem can be approached
 
So I'm brewing a maple wheat ale. and I've had it bottled for over 4 weeks. I tried 1 tonight and it's still not fully carbonated. any input on 2 why it's not carbonated.
 
Bronco, that looks almost the same as mine. Unfortunately, my spigot hole in the bucket is about a quarter inch higher up, so the elbow doesn't quite reach far enough down to effectively dip the last bottle or so. Next time around, I'm going to buy a bucket without a hole and put my own hole in it, I think.

Where did you get the spigot with the hose barb?
 
Thanks for the link. Regarding the extension, I've thought about doing that, but I don't have a way on hand to cut the pipe, so figuring that out is a bit more effort than I've been able to muster. For now, I've been happy enough tipping the bucket at the end. Maybe someday, though.
 
zeg,
You could always "borrow" a pvc pipe cutter from the local hardware store.
Buy the cutter and pipe. Walk out to the car. Cut and fit pipe to bucket. Walk into store and return the cutter. Easy peasy.

Just a thought.
 
zeg,
You could always "borrow" a pvc pipe cutter from the local hardware store.
Buy the cutter and pipe. Walk out to the car. Cut and fit pipe to bucket. Walk into store and return the cutter. Easy peasy.

Just a thought.

That'd probably work, but as a rule I don't like to exploit generous return policies. I make plenty of use of them since I am really bad at planning ahead, but I don't like to buy things planning to use and return.

I'll figure something out eventually, I think these are mostly excuses for not having a lot of energy to spend thinking about things. Tipping the bucket is working ok for me. Thanks for the suggestions, though!
 
That'd probably work, but as a rule I don't like to exploit generous return policies. I make plenty of use of them since I am really bad at planning ahead, but I don't like to buy things planning to use and return.

I'll figure something out eventually, I think these are mostly excuses for not having a lot of energy to spend thinking about things. Tipping the bucket is working ok for me. Thanks for the suggestions, though!

Long before the advent of fancy pvc cutters plumbers just used a hacksaw, and then a pocket knife to clean the edges. If you are really cheap, just buy a hacksaw blade and wrap one end of the blade with duct tape.
 
Long before the advent of fancy pvc cutters plumbers just used a hacksaw, and then a pocket knife to clean the edges. If you are really cheap, just buy a hacksaw blade and wrap one end of the blade with duct tape.

I was just about to say the same thing. And hell, you can probably get a hacksaw blade 2-pack at the dollar store (of course, the $2.49 two-pack at Home Depot isn't all that much more...)
 
I need to bottle my five gallon batch with a siphon and bottling wand, and i just tealized i dont know how to keep the siphon going thru the process(i would think it would stop everytime in between bottles) any help would b nice
 
It should hold the siphon between bottles. Keep the bottling wand below the level of the beer, that way if there are any leaks in the wand, you'll just get a slow leak instead of losing vacuum and eventually having to restart the siphon.

Edit: By the way, try this with a bucket of water first to make sure it's working and that you understand how to work with it before you risk your beer.
 
I need to bottle my five gallon batch with a siphon and bottling wand, and i just tealized i dont know how to keep the siphon going thru the process(i would think it would stop everytime in between bottles) any help would b nice

It should hold the siphon between bottles. Keep the bottling wand below the level of the beer, that way if there are any leaks in the wand, you'll just get a slow leak instead of losing vacuum and eventually having to restart the siphon.

Edit: By the way, try this with a bucket of water first to make sure it's working and that you understand how to work with it before you risk your beer.

Down this path lies frustration! There will be some CO2 still in solution that will collect in the top of the siphon tube. Eventually enough will collect to break the siphon. To minimize it, have a helper ready to hand you bottles and take away full ones. keep to a minimum the time between stopping one bottle and starting the next. Maybe smack the side of the fermentor a few times over several min to degass some of the CO2.

And when you can, buy/build a bottling bucket with a spigot.
 
You're overthinking it. Basically the yeast are tired.

It's more than likely simply the fact that it's a BIG BEER. Haven't you noticed the discussions in this thread on throughout the forum about how BIG BEERS can take MONTHS to finally carb up with out a little extra yeast help at bottling time?

You haven't seen where I've in just about EVERY bottling thread I answer, the little cut and paste about how my 1.090 Belgian Strong Ale took about 6 months to carb up?

Even now, if you want you can uncap add fresh yeast and recap (I'd use new caps) and that will help it along.

I recommend using a medicine eye dropper with graduations on it. Rehydrate some dry yeast in warm water, and using the sanitized eye dropper and squirt a couple mls of yeast into the bottles, cap, shake and leave them for a couple more weeks.

Or wait. But yeah it's probably not because you caramlized the priming sugar (have you EVER actually done it before?) Or not enough oxygen, it's just that those puppies in there did alot to make that Big Beligan into the boozy wonder that it probably is. An just like your fat uncle Joe on Thanksgiving day after 3 helpings of turkey and all the fixings, have undone their belts, taken one look at the Pumpkin Pie, and said, "No Mas." :)

The addition of yeast and nutrient helped. It's carbed now.
 
zeg,
You could always "borrow" a pvc pipe cutter from the local hardware store.
Buy the cutter and pipe. Walk out to the car. Cut and fit pipe to bucket. Walk into store and return the cutter. Easy peasy.

Just a thought.

That is just a bad idea. A hacksaw works just fine.
 
Im a visual learner. I figure others may be as well. So here is my 90 degree pvc dip tube set up. Cost $0.43 at Ace.

The before
old-spout-1.jpg


After:
with-pvc-90---2.jpg


view from top
view-down---3.jpg


bottom of bucket inside
inside-4.jpg

This is absolutely brilliant. I went to Ace yesterday after reading this and bought the elbow and cut it down with a hacksaw and a belt sander (for the fine adjustment) to be just above the bottom of the bucket. It worked great. There wasn't enough beer left to coat the bottom of the bucket.
Thanks Bronco for the tip.
 
Handsaw- Happy to help. :D If my pics helped I'm glad. Its only a drop in the bucket compared to all the great tips Ive acquired from this forum.

I have received so much help from the "average Joe" on this forum. Not only does my beer taste better, but the process of producing the beer has become more enjoyable. I think this thread is a great example of taking the "work" out of the hobby. I was an unorganized mess before I absorbed this thread. Now I actually kinda look forward to bottling...kinda ;)
 
How did you connect the bottling wand to the bottling spigot? I have all my equipment from Midwest supplies and the two don't connect. I think your process makes a lot of sense, any ideas on how I can connect the two? Do I need to get a different bottling wand?
 
How did you connect the bottling wand to the bottling spigot? I have all my equipment from Midwest supplies and the two don't connect. I think your process makes a lot of sense, any ideas on how I can connect the two? Do I need to get a different bottling wand?

A piece of vinyl tubing about 2" long. Obviously this only works if your spigot and wand are the same diameter.
 
I bought some tubing and tried the process. It worked amazingly well. I am all ready for my first bottling day in a few weeks. Just need to cut down the bow I bought a home depot today so it fits in the bucket since it is a little longer than there is space in the bucket.
 
Im a visual learner. I figure others may be as well. So here is my 90 degree pvc dip tube set up. Cost $0.43 at Ace.

The before
old-spout-1.jpg


After:
with-pvc-90---2.jpg


view from top
view-down---3.jpg


bottom of bucket inside
inside-4.jpg

from the pictures it looks like you just use the elbow inside the bucket and nothing else correct? Any issues with leakage this way since you are not using the nut?
 
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