English Mild "session beer" tastes watery....

So i tried my first "session" style beer which was an English Mild. It turned out fairly well, but it has an initial watery taste. It does have body, but that is not evident until its almost swallowed.

My recipe:
7lb 2-row
.5lb C-60
.5lb C-120
.5lb Pale Chocolate
1oz East Kent - 60 Min
WLP002

Mash 154F for 60 Min
-Strike 3.0 Gal
-Sparge 6.0 Gal

OG:1.037
FG:1.010
ABV:3.6%

I hit all my temps right on, and everything went well on brew day.

Should i try to raise my mash temp even more if i were to try this recipe again? Or what could cause it to taste watery? I've never experienced this before.

Mpavlik22 said:

So i tried my first "session" style beer which was an English Mild. It turned out fairly well, but it has an initial watery taste. It does have body, but that is not evident until its almost swallowed.

My recipe:
7lb 2-row
.5lb C-60
.5lb C-120
.5lb Pale Chocolate
1oz East Kent - 60 Min
WLP002

Mash 154F for 60 Min
-Strike 3.0 Gal
-Sparge 6.0 Gal

OG:1.037
FG:1.010
ABV:3.6%

I hit all my temps right on, and everything went well on brew day.

Should i try to raise my mash temp even more if i were to try this recipe again? Or what could cause it to taste watery? I've never experienced this before.

Click to expand...

i mash my session beer at 160F and dry hop them, drinking one right now and love it.

You didnt happen to drink a barleywine before one of those? That will do it.Ha. How long has it been bottled?

Also,did you decide it was watery when it was warming up? Did it have good carbonation?
I wonder if a lower FG would have not made it watery.
I just notice some of my lower session beers when the last few drinks are warmer and flatter,it is just watery.

What jumps at me is the use of plain old 2-row. My English beers got way better the day I started to use Maris Otter.

How long has it been on gas/in bottles ? If you're not robbing the craddle on these english beers, they can taste watery.

Its about 4 weeks old. I carb'd in a keg with co2.

eastoak said:

i mash my session beer at 160F and dry hop them, drinking one right now and love it.

Click to expand...

Whats your typical FG mashing at 160? Whats your OG?

Mpavlik22 said:

Its about 4 weeks old. I carb'd in a keg with co2.

Click to expand...

When did you get it off the yeast ?

jfr1111 said:

When did you get it off the yeast ?

Click to expand...

It was on the yeast for about 10 days. Then racked into a keg and been on gas since.

Is 10 days too early? It is for me, but never made that low of a session beer, i also bottle conditon for months. Im willing to be this has something to do with it?
Im drinking a beer right now that seems low carbonated and as i drink it it seems to be getting more watery, How is your carbonation?

Mpavlik22 said:

It was on the yeast for about 10 days. Then racked into a keg and been on gas since.

Click to expand...

Hmm, I don't know what to tell you then (I have had a mild sit too long on the cake and it was lifeless), other than try a Maris Otter base and mash a bit higher.

Ten days is fine for session beers, especially considering he used wlp002 and the style is an English mild. Mash temperature and thickness can make a big difference in session ales, but I wouldn't expect a beer under 1.040 to have substantial mouthfeel without having added something to it (oats, wheat, maltodextrine, ect). Carbonation levels can have a big impact too.

Try Maris Otter and double your crystal malts.

I wouldn't double the xtal from where it's at. A 1.036 beer isn't going to be 'thick' in any case, in my opinion. Lower the carbonation, increase the serving temp, and maybe recalibrate yer mash thermometer.

I do Orfy's Mild (recipe is in my dropdown) and he says to mash "high baby high!!" @ 158*

what's your carbonation at? try adjusting it and see if that makes a difference

I had initially carb'd to 1.5 vol. I raised it to 2 vol and it seemed to help a little but it's still watery. I did notice if it warms to room temp it tastes less watery.

Does anyone think it could have to do with having such a large sparge volume compared to such a low strike volume. I've never had a beer with such a small strike volume.

Also would doing a no-sparge batch help with a session style beer?

In the last issue of BYO magazine there was an article about this very problem. The author cited that his session beers were thin despite his best efforts to correct the problem. While judging a competition he came across a session beer that was full of flavor and mouthfeel. It turned out the brewer had made it using no-sparge brewing. The author made his next session beer using no-sparge and was rewarded with the beer he had been seeking.
I have made 2 thin-tasting original bitters until trying no-sparge. My most recent session attempt is dark mild, 3.3%abv. It's been in the bottle 1.5 weeks and I tried one out of curiosity and was very surprised at how good it tasted. There was a nice mouthfeel, thanks to flaked barley and no-sparge.

The first thing that stuck out at me was the mash temp

mychalg9 said:

The first thing that stuck out at me was the mash temp

Click to expand...

Do u think it is too low?

Sithdad said:

In the last issue of BYO magazine there was an article about this very problem. The author cited that his session beers were thin despite his best efforts to correct the problem. While judging a competition he came across a session beer that was full of flavor and mouthfeel. It turned out the brewer had made it using no-sparge brewing. The author made his next session beer using no-sparge and was rewarded with the beer he had been seeking.
I have made 2 thin-tasting original bitters until trying no-sparge. My most recent session attempt is dark mild, 3.3%abv. It's been in the bottle 1.5 weeks and I tried one out of curiosity and was very surprised at how good it tasted. There was a nice mouthfeel, thanks to flaked barley and no-sparge.

Click to expand...

I'll have to check it out. Thanks.
One question: how do u scale ur grain to account for lower efficiency? I'd assume u combine the strike & sparge amounts into one water addition.

I will also mention the BYO article. I brewed Jamil's Ordinary Bitter with Willamette though, (the recipe mentioned in that article) with BIAB and I just won gold in the english pale category over 35 or so other entries, over ESBs and the like. When you don't sparge, the malt does taste different, it is bolder and much more bready and biscuty. If you have the volume I would suggest full volume mash and no sparge. You will get a surprising beer, it has malt character that I don't find in my friends beers.

I mashed mine at 154 but I could have mashed it higher. I will also say that increasing the CO2 will give it more perceived body, so since you have it in the keg just try increasing it up to maybe 2.4. It couldn't hurt right?

also try and carb your keh with DME next time... i find that helps "round" out a lighter beer.

Mpavlik22 said:

I'll have to check it out. Thanks.
One question: how do u scale ur grain to account for lower efficiency? I'd assume u combine the strike & sparge amounts into one water addition.

Click to expand...

Build a spreadsheet (could start with Kai's mash efficiency spreadsheet) that uses goalseeking to give an amount of grain that when combined with your grain to water ratio gives pre boil wort of such gravity that when diluted to your target volume gives your target preboil gravity. Or just manually iterate in Beersmith or whatever (should just take a few steps to get close if your initial guess is good).

OK, so I looked at a few spread sheets and formulas.

Here’s what I came up with for no sparge recipe:

Original recipe:
7lb 2-row
.5lb C-60
.5lb C-120
.5lb Pale Chocolate
Mash 154
-strike 3.0 Gal @ 169F
-sparge 6.0 Gal @ 174F

Revised recipe:
8.5lb 2-row
.6lb C-60
.6 C-120
.6 Pale Chocolate
Mash 155
-Strike with 9 gal @ 160F
-No Sparge

So using 9 gallons of H20 with .08 gal/lb of grain/water ratio (grain occupies .08 gal/lb when mixed with water) I come up with:

9 Gal H20
+ (10.5 lbs grain *.08 ) = .84 gallons
Total volume needed to mash in = 9.84 gallons (which will fit in my 10Gal cooler)

Does this look OK? I noticed the more H20 you add for your strike volume the lower the temp has to be to reach your projected mash temp.

Also I am shooting for a 7Gal pre boil volume (9 gal strike H20 - 0.5gal mash tun loss – 1.3125 gal (0.125/lb grain asorb 0.125*10.5lbs grain =1.3125) = 7.18 Gal left over for boil.

Please provide any comments suggestions you have.

I would refer to earlier posts, and suggest a still higher mash temp. 158F is a good place to start on this (as referenced in an earlier post re: Orfy's Mild Recipe).

Could it be my strike to sparge ratio that makes it taste watery? I've never striked with such little H2O (I used 1.3 qt/lb mash thickness).

Smaller amounts of mash water is supposed to make a richer beer,just from what ive been reading up on , i agree with the higher temp,plus with your OG that may be challenging to get some body, i would use flaked barley,and or some carapils. Priming with dme instead of sugar will slightly help.Also the right yeast may help also. Make shure your thermometer is correct.

To update: i increased the carbonation to 2 vol of co2. I kno it's outta style for the beer, but it took away the wateriness and thinness. I didn't kno co2 affected thinness of a beer...

Mpavlik22 said:

To update: i increased the carbonation to 2 vol of co2. I kno it's outta style for the beer, but it took away the wateriness and thinness. I didn't kno co2 affected thinness of a beer...

Click to expand...

IMO, carbonation is just about the biggest thing you can do to alter perception of the beer. It can change how you taste it, and how it feels in your mouth. It's a big big deal for me.