Extra Water Loss From Grain Absorption???

Can you guys tell me why I seemed to loose so much water on my last mash?

I mashed the following;
- 6lbs Pale Malt
- 3.75lbs Wheat Malt
- 3.00lbs Rye Malt
- 1.00lb Rice Hulls

Doughed in at 1.3qrts/lbs ~ 4.0 gal
Mashed out w/ 1.75 gal
Sparged w/ 4 gal

I basically added 9.75 gal. PM said I'd loose 1.6. My extraction vol was an even 7 gal, so I'm missing at least another gallon.

Extraction was 70% . 5 points under target.

I have not mashed much with wheat and have never done rye before this.

What about MLT deadspace? I have to tilt my MLT & still lose about a quart due to deadspace.

Basically 12 # of grain....I'd have planned to have lost 2 gallons to the grain. I always seem to loose more than everyone else. My AG Cream ale that I did Sunday absorbed 1 1/2 gallons in 10# of grain.

I wonder if it's because Eastern Colorado is at like 1% Humidity this time of year? Just VERY dry grain going in?

Soperbrew said:

What about MLT deadspace? I have to tilt my MLT & still lose about a quart due to deadspace.

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I have to do the same. Tilt the cooler for a bit. Until this batch ProMash has been right on with water uage, collection volume and absorption. I also have my losses tweaked in on the water usage page.

I'm wondering BK is right about the grain being dry. Mainly the wheat & rye. My LHBS doesn't turn alot of rye.

Almost forgot. I didn't have the 1lb of rice hulls in ProMash. It not part of the ingredients section.

BigKahuna said:

Basically 12 # of grain....I'd have planned to have lost 2 gallons to the grain. I always seem to loose more than everyone else. My AG Cream ale that I did Sunday absorbed 1 1/2 gallons in 10# of grain.

I wonder if it's because Eastern Colorado is at like 1% Humidity this time of year? Just VERY dry grain going in?

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I lost 2.75 gallons to 13.75lbs grain?

I see the calculation ".2 gallons for every pound of grain" as a common amount to assume you'll lose.

So you had basically 14 lbs...so yeah 2.5 gallons of absorption seems reasonable. plus any deadspace...maybe a half gallon there.

Ahoy hoy,
I have magical water loss as well. I now go into a 5 gallon boil with about 10 gallons of water, and after loss to grain and the snarf at the bottom of the kettle i leave behind after i siphon out the cooled wort, its still a close call to get 5.5 . Are you by any chance using whole hops? Those lil sponges cause me to add another gallon per 1/4 lb of whole hops. Ive tweaked Beersmith to compensate in my recipes now. Its usually adding more sparge water.
Now, Im up here in Alaska, and I'm sure the boiling rate here is different from elsewhere, but, I thought I would post FYI.
I bid you a great day!

malkore said:

I see the calculation ".2 gallons for every pound of grain" as a common amount to assume you'll lose.

So you had basically 14 lbs...so yeah 2.5 gallons of absorption seems reasonable. plus any deadspace...maybe a half gallon there.

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My ProMash setting was low.... 0.12! I never had this problem before and was never in there messing with the default. Its fixed.

I wonder if I've been lucky getting not so dry grain.

I'm wondering if wheat & rye have greater absorption factors...

i know when i add rice hulls to a recipe beersmith will add more water to the mash since they will suck up some water...

that could be where the extra water went.

Schlenkerla said:

Almost forgot. I didn't have the 1lb of rice hulls in ProMash. It not part of the ingredients section.

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You can add ingredients not listed. So, create a listing for Rice Hulls. No gravity, no color, assume the same absorption as the grain.

I've found that rice hulls barely hold any water but wheat and rye hold a little more than typical with barley. I think the reason is that malted barley's weight is made up of endosperm and husk. The husk doesn't absorb. Wheat and rye have no husk so all of it's weight "absorbs". Barley is maybe .125g/lb (or half quart if you like), maybe wheat and rye would be .2g/lb.

Medo said:

Are you by any chance using whole hops? Those lil sponges cause me to add another gallon per 1/4 lb of whole hops. Ive tweaked Beersmith to compensate in my recipes now. Its usually adding more sparge water.

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Whole hops retain a gob of water. Much more than one would expect.

ive done roughly 30 AG batches, and i have dialed my system in to the "T". Beers with wheat need adjustments made to not only of the mash efficiency of the wheat(unless step mashing with protein rest), AND the absorption factor of wheat, it is higher than 2 row.

Per chance are you using a Coleman on wheels with a raised and angled drain port? If so, my old MLT, (the same), lost an extra 4+ quarts every time no matter what I did. I now use the Coleman Xtreme (no wheels) which has a slight tilt toward the drain and a sub-bottom gutter. Now I lose approximately 20oz/pound, (1 1/3 pints), assuming a baseline of 2-row Pale Malt (Maris Otter, Breiss 2-row, etc), due to absorption of both grain and hops, (2oz of fresh hops absorb 6-8oz on squeeze test). It would seem to defy the laws of physics for your malt to be absorbing an extra gallon regardless of grain type unless it is infused with Silica Gel

I use 8.5 gallons, (all rests, conversion, and lauter), with 10 lbs of grain to get 7.0 gallons of wort boiled to 5.5 prior to pitching. These are pretty standard volumes with most home brewers. It varies with some adjuncts but very little even with oats or flaked maize.