Working on a new English Bitter recipe would like your thoughts.

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Pugs13

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5lbs. 14oz. Marris Otter (Crisp) info 38 4 ~
8oz. Flaked Oats info 33 2 ~
6oz. Briess Carapils info 34 1 ~
6oz. Biscuit Malt info 36 23 ~
6oz. Briess Caramel 60L info 34 60 ~
2oz. Acidulated Malt info 33 2 ~

hops
boil 60 mins 1.0 Fuggles info pellet 4.5
boil 20 mins 0.25 East Kent Goldings info pellet 5.0
boil 15 mins 0.5 Fuggles info pellet 4.5
boil 10 mins 0.25 East Kent Goldings info pellet 5.0
boil 5 mins 0.5 Fuggles info

English Ale Yeast

OG - 1.041 Final Gravity
FG - 1.012
8° SRM
(Gold to Copper)
Mash Efficiency
72%
33.4 IBU
3.9%ABV

I will be using Gypsum in the brew kettle as well. I may use Calcium Chloride in the mash water but not sure?.? I am also wondering what you guys think about the hop additions...I know most bitters do their hops usually in the start with no late additions.
 
Lools tasty to me; Id try it like it stands. I like late hop additions in my English beers. It may not be strictly to style, but I find the aroma pleasant. I also like your use of fuggles and EKG, they are both great.
I am a supporter of experimentation.

I made an esb with a bit of brown malt instead of crystal, and dry hopped with ekg. It is pretty good.
 
I don't think you need the biscuit if you're using MO as your base malt. Up to you.
I like light dry hopping on my bitters to simulate cask hopping. 0.5 oz is usually enough. Perhaps drop one of the flavor additions in favor of dry hopping.
 
Lools tasty to me; Id try it like it stands. I like late hop additions in my English beers. It may not be strictly to style, but I find the aroma pleasant. I also like your use of fuggles and EKG, they are both great.
I am a supporter of experimentation.

I made an esb with a bit of brown malt instead of crystal, and dry hopped with ekg. It is pretty good.

Its funny you mention the dry hopping. I just bottled an esb that I dry hopped with ekg. It was awesome before dry hopping right out of the fermenter but after I dry hopped it, it is super spicy tasting. I mean I did use 1oz. of EKG, they really shine through. I think they come through too much that they take away from the fresh malty grain character.
 
I don't think you need the biscuit if you're using MO as your base malt. Up to you.

Yes I was wondering this same thing. I am really digging MO a lot. I think I may take it the biscuit out just to be safe. I don't want it too over powering. Nice clean grainy/malty taste.
 
I wouldn't use flaked oats in it, at all. I'd also pull the 20 minute EKG addition into the 10 minute addition. I'd also change the 60l and carapils out for crystal Maris Otter (Rebel Brewer sells it). That will give you some more MO flavors that are a bit sweeter (its a 55L malt I believe).

What yeast are you thinking of using? I've had solid luck with the English strains from Wyeast. Especially 1335, 1882-pc, and 1768-pc. You might be able to get 1882-pc from some of the online vendors still.
 
keep it simple. eliminate half your malts.

Agreed. I'd drop the carapils, the flaked oats, and the acidulated (unless you need it for ph reasons). I like adding a little biscuit to my bitters, even when MO is the base malt; it adds a bit more of that bready/cracker taste.

I'd also simplify the hops schedule. 60/10/FO, 60/15/FO, or even just 60/FO works great.

IMO, the best bitters are simple beers, but they're really hard to get right.
 
keep it simple. eliminate half your malts.

Agreed.

Best ordinary bitter I've ever brewed was something like:

95% Golden Promise
5% Crystal 120

1040ish, 30ish IBU,

60 min Fuggles and EKG
0 minutes Fuggles and EKG.

Wyeast 1469

At work at the moment so that's off the top of my head, if you're interesting in seeing the correct recipe it's the clone for Timothy Taylor's Ordinary Bitter (just their ordinary not Landlord).

EDIT: Going no sparge with small beers helps a lot too I've found. Either by eliminating the sparge altogether or just adding all your sparge water as a mashout infusion. I usually go with the latter for a little better efficiency.
 
This is modified.
6lbs. 12oz. Marris Otter
6oz. Crystal 50-60L
4oz. Biscuit malt
2oz. Acidulated malt

My hop additions are
1oz. Fuggles - 60min.
.25oz. EKG - 10min.
.5oz. Fuggles - 10min.
.25oz. EKG - 5min.
.5oz. Fuggles - 5min.

I am using English Ale yeast. I have had really good luck with that yeast.
 
I would replace the crystal 50-60L and Acidulated malt with Crystal MO. You can still add the biscuit/victory malt if you REALLY want to, but I think it's overkill.

Something else you might want to consider... Hop bursting. You end up using more hops (by weight) to get the same IBU, but it's all from 20 minutes from the end forward.

Also, I just entered the recipe as you have it last into BeerSmith... You're at under your original recipe IBU's (at 26.8, not 33.4)... I would increase the EKG amounts to .5oz at 10 minutes and 1oz at 5 minutes. That will land you just under 32 IBU. The estimated color is lower than your original recipe (6.4 SRM). Changing the malts to remove the acid and 60L, keeping the victory at 1/4# and adding 12oz of Crystal MO gets you to 8.1 SRM. Your OG could be lifted to 1.043, but I don't see that as an issue.

What temperature are you planning to mash this at?? That will also seriously impact the FG.

BTW, I have an English IPA recipe that I hop burst. I use all EKG (7.2% AA) in 5 minute intervals starting at 20 minutes from the end. I end up using 7.5oz, and get just under 48 IBU. You get incredible hop flavor and aroma this way, IME. But, you really need good software to help you figure out the hop additions if you're going to target a tight range. I'm brewing that recipe again for my next batch. I have family members that really like it. I've been keeping them at bay with my MO SMaSH supply.
 
You could delete the biscit malt and do a light roast of some of your MO
 
Golddiggie said:
I would replace the crystal 50-60L and Acidulated malt with Crystal MO. You can still add the biscuit/victory malt if you REALLY want to, but I think it's overkill.

Something else you might want to consider... Hop bursting. You end up using more hops (by weight) to get the same IBU, but it's all from 20 minutes from the end forward.

Also, I just entered the recipe as you have it last into BeerSmith... You're at under your original recipe IBU's (at 26.8, not 33.4)... I would increase the EKG amounts to .5oz at 10 minutes and 1oz at 5 minutes. That will land you just under 32 IBU. The estimated color is lower than your original recipe (6.4 SRM). Changing the malts to remove the acid and 60L, keeping the victory at 1/4# and adding 12oz of Crystal MO gets you to 8.1 SRM. Your OG could be lifted to 1.043, but I don't see that as an issue.

What temperature are you planning to mash this at?? That will also seriously impact the FG.
I cannot get my hands on the crystal MO. So I may just use the crystal 50-60L which states it is used for ESB. I also use the acidulated malt for my pH since I use RO water. I will probably treat thay up with some calcium or salts as well. I am planning on mashing at 154F as usual unless there is the 152F range would be better...I will take the hop bursting into co.consideration but no guarantees just yet. Another thing is its hard to say from beer software to software because I have noticed they all seem to give different readings. With this I am actually at about 8 SRM. So...not sure...
 
I linked to where you can get your hands on Crystal MO easily. If you don't want to, that's fine, just don't say you can't get your hands on it.

I've been using BeerSmith for a while now (since before 2.0 was released) and find ti's pretty damned close in what it gives you for information. It might give color readings on the light side, but that could also be due to longer/harder boils on my part.

Just be aware that mashing at 154F you're into medium body, if not a bit more than medium. What you mash at really comes down to what you want for the body of the brew.
 
Golddiggie said:
I linked to where you can get your hands on Crystal MO easily. If you don't want to, that's fine, just don't say you can't get your hands on it.

I've been using BeerSmith for a while now (since before 2.0 was released) and find ti's pretty damned close in what it gives you for information. It might give color readings on the light side, but that could also be due to longer/harder boils on my part.

Just be aware that mashing at 154F you're into medium body, if not a bit more than medium. What you mash at really comes down to what you want for the body of the brew.

No I ment I cannot get ot at my brewing store and I just don't want to order it. I would rather substitute. Could I use like a roasted barley to get the color darker? Like 2oz. of a 550L? Also, what do you suggest for mash temp.?
 
How about something like this...
7# MO
6oz. British Crystal 50-60L
2oz. Acidulated Malt
2oz. Roasted Barley - 550L

The roasted barley brings the color up nicely.

USE TIME OZ
60 mins 1.0 Fuggles
20 mins 0.25 East Kent Goldings
15 mins 0.50 East Kent Goldings
10 mins 0.5 Fuggles
5 mins 0.5 Fuggles
 
Is darker color desirable in a Better Bitter/ESB?

Here is a pic of an ESB (95% MO, 2% Extra Dark Crystal 160L, 3% Caramalt 20L). I thought the 160L crystal masked the maltiness of the MO and will rebrew with crystal 60L-80L instead and perhaps scaled down from the OG of 1.056 to 1.050. I wonder if the roast barley might take over too much.

BCS ESB.jpg
 
DSmith said:
Is darker color desirable in a Better Bitter/ESB?

Here is a pic of an ESB (95% MO, 2% Extra Dark Crystal 160L, 3% Caramalt 20L). I thought the 160L crystal masked the maltiness of the MO and will rebrew with crystal 60L-80L instead and perhaps scaled down from the OG of 1.056 to 1.050. I wonder if the roast barley might take over too much.

I have a SRM of 13 as of now...I was thinking of just using more 50-60L but yea I juat don't want to mask the otter too much...
 
You only need to use acidulated malt to adjust the pH if you're dealing with extremely alkaline water. RO water is the opposite, it has no alkalinity. The malts will drop the pH enough. Look into the Brew Science forum for info on water chemistry.

Here's my super simple bitter recipe:
Grain
6# (80%) Maris Otter (or Pale Ale Malt or Golden Promise)
12 oz (10%) Crystal 40L
12 oz (10%) Turbinado Sugar

Mash @ 152°

Hops
1 oz Northern Brewer @ 60
1 oz Fuggle @ 15
1 oz Fuggle @ 0
 
pugs i think the modified looks great

never underestimate the flavor and complexity of base malt. especially maris otter.

color is irrelevant. i wouldn't use more than 1oz roasted. well i wouldn't use any, but...
 
I use all RO water and 2% acidulated malt for mash pH. I think his 2 oz is going to be fine to get the room temp mash pH to about 5.5 with 100% RO water and assuming CaCl2/CaSO4 additions. I check pH every time with a test mash, Hana pHep5 & fresh calibration solution. I haven't come across a beer yet that didn't need acidulated malt with 100% RO water, but haven't brewed an intensely dark beer yet.
 
I use all RO water and 2% acidulated malt for mash pH. I think his 2 oz is going to be fine to get the room temp mash pH to about 5.5 with 100% RO water and assuming CaCl2/CaSO4 additions. I check pH every time with a test mash, Hana pHep5 & fresh calibration solution. I haven't come across a beer yet that didn't need acidulated malt with 100% RO water, but haven't brewed an intensely dark beer yet.

This is what I have been told to do as well with RO water and it has been working out great actually.
 
motobrewer said:
re: mash temp, what yeast are you using?

I'd probably go for 151ish, maybe 150.

Using English Ale yeast. Really like this yeast. Cleans up nicely. That mash temp. sounds good. Thanks
 
No I ment I cannot get ot at my brewing store and I just don't want to order it. I would rather substitute. Could I use like a roasted barley to get the color darker? Like 2oz. of a 550L? Also, what do you suggest for mash temp.?

Using only what the LHBS sells will seriously limit your options. There are several top notch online vendors (or stores you can also order from online/via phone). Rebel Brewer is one of them. I get some of my supplies from them. I get my British crystal malts from Farmhouse brewing supply (another vendor listed here). I sometimes order yeast from wither Midwest or NB (if Rebel doesn't have it). I would let the recipe determine where you shop not let one store dictate what you can use in a recipe.

I would NOT use a 550L malt in an ESB.

I would maah at either 150 or 152 for an hour. Using BeerSmith I get a solid prediction of the FG when I enter the mash temp in that section.

If you want a solid brew don't be afraid to order from online vendors and actually get software that's not free. You can try BeerSmith before paying for it. Look at the feedback on the vendors I've mentioned above. The vast majority of the feedback is very positive. You can even use paypal for purchases on some of them (maybe eveb all of them now) so you don't need a credit card.
 
Probably just going to use
7# MO
6oz. Crystal 50-60L
2oz. Acidulated malt

My SRM is about 7-8ish
Ibu are about 34.
English ale yeast.
3.9% ABV
Mash temp - 151-152F 60min.
Fly sparge temp ? What do you think?
60min. Boil
 
Golddiggie said:
Using only what the LHBS sells will seriously limit your options. There are several top notch online vendors (or stores you can also order from online/via phone). Rebel Brewer is one of them. I get some of my supplies from them. I get my British crystal malts from Farmhouse brewing supply (another vendor listed here). I sometimes order yeast from wither Midwest or NB (if Rebel doesn't have it). I would let the recipe determine where you shop not let one store dictate what you can use in a recipe.

I would NOT use a 550L malt in an ESB.

I would maah at either 150 or 152 for an hour. Using BeerSmith I get a solid prediction of the FG when I enter the mash temp in that section.

If you want a solid brew don't be afraid to order from online vendors and actually get software that's not free. You can try BeerSmith before paying for it. Look at the feedback on the vendors I've mentioned above. The vast majority of the feedback is very positive. You can even use paypal for purchases on some of them (maybe eveb all of them now) so you don't need a credit card.

Thanks for the insight. I will have to look more into those vendors.
 
This is modified.
6lbs. 12oz. Marris Otter
6oz. Crystal 50-60L
4oz. Biscuit malt
2oz. Acidulated malt

My hop additions are
1oz. Fuggles - 60min.
.25oz. EKG - 10min.
.5oz. Fuggles - 10min.
.25oz. EKG - 5min.
.5oz. Fuggles - 5min.

I am using English Ale yeast. I have had really good luck with that yeast.

This looks fantastic to me (as does your most recent version, without the biscuit. Either way you've got an excellent bitter). I don't use acidulated malt, so I'll leave the ph argument to others, but besides that, it looks like a great beer. Simplicity rules.

Mash at 152 or 154 - either way you'll be fine.


BTW, hopbursting in a Bitter? WTH? Bitters are all about balance.
 
Yes, hop bursting an ESB/English pale ale or even English IPA is great. With the 20 and 15 minute additions you get most of the IBUs. With the later additions you build the flavor and aroma profile. If you do a 'normal' hop schedule then I would make sure to use enough later addition hop amounta so that you get something from them.

I used all EKG in my MO SMaSH recipe with one 60 minute addition and then the rest from 20 minutes forward. The BU/GU balance was great even with a good amount of hops. I did hop burst my caramel ale which also has the BU/GU balance desired.
Basically don't fear hop bursting. Read up on the method and try a recipe (or several) and see how you like it. It def. has a place in brewing.
 
Golddiggie said:
Yes, hop bursting an ESB/English pale ale or even English IPA is great. With the 20 and 15 minute additions you get most of the IBUs. With the later additions you build the flavor and aroma profile. If you do a 'normal' hop schedule then I would make sure to use enough later addition hop amounta so that you get something from them.

I used all EKG in my MO SMaSH recipe with one 60 minute addition and then the rest from 20 minutes forward. The BU/GU balance was great even with a good amount of hops. I did hop burst my caramel ale which also has the BU/GU balance desired.
Basically don't fear hop bursting. Read up on the method and try a recipe (or several) and see how you like it. It def. has a place in brewing.

Yea I will try this hop schedule see what happens.
60 mins 1.0 Fuggles
20 mins 0.25 East Kent Goldings
15 mins 0.5 East Kent Goldings
10 mins 0.5 Fuggles
5 mins 0.5 Fuggles
 

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